Michael Cade, Kasten | KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2023

This is texturing TV. Hey everyone. We're back here live on the floor of kubecon along with 10,000 other people.

It's it's quite a show here in Amsterdam. And Amsterdam is really shining. We've had the luxury of spending a few days here and seeing some of the sites exploring the city eating the food sampling.

Everything else they have to sample. My next guest is Michael Cade Michaels with casting by veeam. If you watch text on TV often, you've seen Michael before but we've never you know, it's different when you're live right until you once you go live.

It's a whole different story Michael. Welcome. What do you think of this show so far?

Yeah, so awesome and obviously I think Years Gone by keepcon. Obviously, let's forget about the pandemic. We don't need to talk about that anymore.

But I think Years Gone by it was very developer focused. I think developers were getting sucked into this new platform. This this new ecosystem.

Now the conversations that I'm having at least are 80% sres really home engineering whatever Nate new name new title that you are. It's definitely the people that have that data responsibility that they're putting storage. They're putting different applications.

They're keeping the lights on it's the day to operations is what I'm seeing. So that's the that's a very interesting. Okay, Michael because you know, I've been sitting here all morning talking.

some of them are saying look. We're asking developers to do something different. We're not necessarily shifting left though.

We are but we're actually pulling the developers, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Right, I think like if you look back to devops. My argument around devops is that we pulled the operation to the left right now. We're pulling potentially the devops to have a bit more of an understanding about what the infrastructure what the platform looks like with their application as well.

So again trying to meet in the middle, but it's like but that it's kind of like that tug of war where the middle Can maybe move and and you mentioned it when we were talking off right off camera. Look boy and on camera lot more conversations with sres a lot more conversations with platform Engineers. Yeah.

You know in my day we called those people out. Yes. It's a systems administrators.

Right? But why why be cool assistant's administrator in 2023 where you can you get 20% more salary? Well, that is it take time but it's an evolution right that role.

That's this. Admin that had to keep the lights on had to deliver the underpinning infrastructure the platform for the application whether that's off the shelf software or whether it's for a development team. It's still the same aspect we've got One thing that is there though is the the responsibility of of that data or how do we automate a lot of this stuff as well?

Like that seems to be there. Another trend is is automation. Yep.

So you mentioned something before though that I want to return to if you know my and that is the the issue of responsibility Right. We saw this I saw a personally in the cloud when Cloud first came out. Yeah.

For security people. It was hard to pry out of their cold dead hands. Control over security.

But if you were going to put stuff in a public Cloud you had a seed some control. Yeah, because you just didn't have that sort of insight that sort of Control, so you had to give control to the public cloud provider, but what would happen was? If when something happened the fact that it was the public cloud provider who had that control did not limit the responsibility.

Of the security person. I wonder if we don't see a similar thing here. Yeah, so a hundred percent so from it, obviously I'm speaking more more and more about people that are responsible for data.

So replace your potentially your security talk track with data or both because I think we there's a merging line as well around the security of the data is very important, especially wherever you're putting it into manage kubernetes services into serverless functions within Dynamo DB or Lambda functions Etc data still the the responsibility has to lie somewhere or if it doesn't it will when something bad happens, right you might day zero day one we might get the application here and it might run on a database it might use messaging cues might use all the state stable workloads, maybe even side even outside of the kubernetes cluster. And until like the afterthought will be always the backup all the insurance policy around that so where does that responsibility lay was still with that sysadmin that platform engineering team that SRE and it's it's like the conversations we're having here is is very much. We've deployed our application.

There's a database with it. There's some data services wrapped around it observability data. We've we've had an outage and we lost that then logs.

We lost that that visibility of of some of the stuff and suddenly they want to come and have a chat with us about okay. How do we manage that data? So it started to happen where we're seeing not only stateful workloads Landing kubernetes, but also the responsibility of oh we need.

Oh, yeah, we do need to protect that. Yes. Like a winner has a thousand.

parents or supporters and a loser is a bastard, right? I mean no one. to that extent that I mean if you're gonna be blamed something goes wrong.

You want to make sure who really has that responsibility and if it is what do I got to do with it? Yeah exactly as I think for the last 18 months, we've probably had that security. As a big ticket item when it comes to like cubecon in Detroit and then before that in Valencia, there's all about defect up.

It was about kubernetes. It was about vulnerability scanning. I actually believe we're going into that that time where data And Mobility is going to become a bigger talking point because data responsibility and we can talk about like ransomware attacks are commonplace kubernetes is now an attack Vector for those cybercriminals as well.

So, how do we protect the data? How do we become that that remediation effort? How do we how do we get things back to how they were before the bad thing happened?

well Look, so I sit in a very. Unique chair speak about this chair, but you know we get to talk to a lot of people we get to see a lot of different things. We've definitely seen a return to Primacy of the data, right because it is all about the data.

We spent so much time over the last years. about app s Security app development after deployment code for the apps and so forth. We forgot that those were really just the front ends.

Yeah of the data it was the day to all along. Getting that data storing that data analyzing that data. Giving that information that intelligence to people that analysis.

It's all about the data. So I'm I for one. I'm happy to see this.

Okay, I just add to that. This is a new stuff. Right?

We've been doing data analytics data management data copy my copy data management on VMS and physical machine data sets for for many years. You haven't he doesn't change that other than it it's just a different platform like virtualization was a different platform cloud is a different platform. Even at East becomes a different platform that opens up a massive door.

Like that's what you see all of these like different vendors here talking about different things around that ecosystem that weren't there for the virtualization days or the cloud that a lot of these will be there for the cloud as well because it spans that cloud computing model as well. So but I think yeah that data. Data, not only being able to get insight from that data to provide like better business outcomes, but equally about that.

How do we move that data? Like maybe I've maybe I've gone into one big hyperscaler and now cost is a factor or location is a factor or regulation. And now I want to move that I want to do that in the most efficient way possible.

That's gonna not cost me a bucket load of money and and I want to make it as as seamless as possible. So being able to transform what that data looks like into that other cluster and I think that's what we're starting to see people wanting to have that freedom of choice around mobility of data. another scenario Michael and that is you know, we're gonna start seeing I think a real uptick in m&a activity, especially in the tech sector and that's another situation where that data Mobility or the or the ability to Move data is is going to come into play right because you what you don't want is.

A whole bunch of different data silos each with its own kind of recipe. And so that'll work as well. So that's a huge benefit of kubernetes.

Right? Is that kubernetes? Whether you run it in your own data center whether you run it in EK, it's distributed.

Is there anything else it's a cloud OS right so I can freely move between the two but there is gonna be some intricacies that like storage classes are gonna be different and like some of the some of the building blocks are gonna be different. So how do we move that that data free between and that so something that we're having the conversations with we can actually do that help do that as well and in an efficient way. So yeah, that's right.

It's something that we're talking about Michael. Did we give a website out? com is where you like gonna find out more about what we're up to the doctor probably.

More impressive than the marketing Spiel I can say that because I'm not in marketing. And then we go to we're live here and we've got the more backed up. We got a little bit of a late start to see you go back.

I want to thank you for coming by man. It's always a pleasure is on. io.

Yeah. Check it out Michael Kate here on Tech strong TV. We're gonna take a break.

I think we've got the Linker defolks and Brian coming up next standby.