Techstrong Gang – October 2, 2024

Hey, everyone. Happy Wednesday. You got DevOps.

Well, DevOps now is out and we can't wait to tell you all about it. Also, cybersecurity pros seem to be wary of AI generated code shocking. And Gavin Newsom all of a sudden is becoming conservative.

He's vetoing stuff left and right. All this and more, you're watching Textron Gag. Hey everyone, happy Wednesday and welcome to another edition of The Text on Gang.

I'm Alan Shimel and I'm really glad to have you here. I've been waiting to talk about, uh, one of our stories here for a long time, and it's, you know, got DevOps, DevOps. Next we're gonna jump into it.

Uh, but before we do, let me introduce you to our gang members today. We've got, we've got some of our regulars here who, who really bring a lot of firepower to bear on this DevOps issue, on this DevOps story, as well as what else we're gonna talk about. First of all, joining us, uh, he's the author of the Got DevOps report, uh, or DevOps Next, I call it got DevOps, but he's also our CTO, uh, Mitchell.

Ashley. Hey Mitch. Welcome.

How are you man? Good to be here. I'm coming to you from the Star Wars room at Textron.

So they're putting a roof on our house, so we're all Contributed. I don't see getting away from I don't guitar or anything there. Yeah, it's, it's, it's the media room.

Yeah. All kinds of fun stuff on the walls In there. So that poster immediately over your shoulder.

I now the other one. That one. This one.

Oh, I have that in my office also. That's, I've seen That. It's very nice.

Witness the poster. You, we were invited to like a premier of that and they they did that poster out. We did, yeah.

We saw that. You and I have seen more than one opening of a Star War movie as well As dude in probably every other sci-fi Yeah. For another day.

Yes. A Alan's is actually fake. 'cause Mitch Tolin put it on his and gave him a favorite.

Yeah, I did. A quick, I copy wind. Ah, fake.

Okay. Who was the IP on that? Oh, that was yesterday's show.

Okay. Moving off from it, Ashley, it's run over to, uh, the Raleigh area, right? Charlotte?

Charlotte. Not far from Raleigh. Raleigh not too far because I was, I was in Raleigh for so many years and that's when we first got to know each other.

And you are not the only one still. I haven't been here what couple of years now. So, settling in still.

Lemme ask you question. Yeah. Do people still call it the research triangle area and it's Raleigh Durham and Charlotte?

Or is that showing my end? No, research triangle is still appropriate because there is an actual demarcated zone that is the Research Triangle Park. So, uh, that reference is accurate.

Cisco is there. IBM is there. Uh, NetApp so many companies.

So some people will say, oh, I'm heading over to RTP. That's usually what they'll say. And, and people R tp.

Yeah. Yeah. We know how to be, uh, up and hip about it.

Right. A little bit. We went there once, remember we had a van deal with Cisco for like an insane amount of nodes to scan for vulnerabilities, Uhhuh and like tens of thousand thousand, something like that.

That was a big back then. That was a big, yeah. Huge.

Yeah. Anyway, hope Street that we went home and re-architected the product. Wow.

I I just seem to remember Carrie, North Carolina being referred to as the containment area for relocating. No, Carrie is now called, it's half that half that Carolina. Yeah.

It's for people who come from New York and New Jersey all the way down to Florida and then they move half way back. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they go halfway way back.

But trivia North Carolina is one of, it's, it's top, top three easily. Could be the second spot now for people who leave. Yes.

New York And they go halfway by. Most all of my family that lived in New York, moved to North Carolina. So it is, Well, let's not talk politics and elections, but we'll see.

We wait. No, go ahead, Mike. Well, you were gonna say something political, weren't you?

Well, well, I just moved from Florida. I just moved from Florida all the way. Well, you're a fullback to New York.

Makes you're a fullback, Mike. I'm aback right. Well, you just moved the lines for the other, you're a quarterback, um, quarterback.

Oh God. Anyway, Everyone playing your Position, it's great to have you. That's next up coming to us and a playing fullback position all the way back.

Our chief content officer, Mike Ard. Hey, Mike, it's great to have you here. I'm good, I'm good.

I'm unpacked and I, and I especially pulled out my Shirt on presentation today. You know, those weren't supposed to, you're supposed to leave those at the state line here. I take percent Sheriff Buford t Justice up to reclaim our shirts for you.

I I, I'm, I'm gonna be still on this somewhere. Hey, I, I can autograph it if you, maybe we should Mitchell autograph DevOps next. I'll, uh, I will, I will.

By the way, doesn't this make me the wide receiver out here in Colorado? Is that what I amm You're a split end to make sure it's split end. Yeah, split.

Could be split, yeah. More ways than one. Yes.

Yeah. Um, anyway, I went to a football game last night. Forgive me, but, um, wanted to talk, Mitch, I want to throw it out to you.

You know, we, we had this notion of it's time, it's time. We take a good deep look at DevOps. com and the Mortal words of Gumby.

And, um, you know, where, where is the DevOps market? com and we think DevOps is such an important and hope you, you, right, and your position at CloudBees, I mean, who's DevOps all the time. And, and, but really, are we smoking our own socks, breathing our own exhaust Is, is DevOps dead?

Is platform engineering. So, great. Moving along.

What, what is the state of the DevOps market? And Mitch, you know, you spent a hundreds of hours on this, but talk to us. Well, we, we try to take an honest look and, and ask people where are they in their adoption?

Um, where are they seeing value? Is it making a difference in how they deliver software? Um, where does AI play in this?

Or, you know, is they come seeing a future for that while we have another report, uh, particularly about ai and also just what's the general sense? What's the vibe? Are people positive about DevOps?

Is it sort of pass Yeah, we did that before. It's back there with Agile and we're moving on to something else. Interestingly enough, the data was very clear, very, very clear.

Um, in, in looking at, in investments, I think it's one way to really measure it accurately. Um, I'll play analyst quoting stats here for a minute here. The 60% of the people that responded said that they planned to boost their investments in DevOps in the next two years.

20 20% were planning significant budget increases. So you're looking at 80% that are still investing significantly, um, in DevOps. And when it came, when it came down to, you know, what about the tools that we use?

Well, even at the core of DevOps is CICD, right? We all know that that's often where people start. And a third of people are planning on replacing, uh, their CICD platform or, or solution and potentially moving to a platform approach.

And that's something that we also talked about. I'll kinda leave that we can, we can talk about platforms in a moment, but if you wanna sum it all up, if over when we ask, what's your view of the, of the future of DevOps from positive down to negative on a kind of five five rating scale, 88% said they view the future of DevOps. Generally positive with 50% describing it is very positive.

5% respondents, uh, had a negative outlook. com, which often, you know, can have a little bit of self-selection in it. Uh, but those are just some of the things that rose to the top.

And there's some very interesting trends. Now, I'm gonna turn it back to you, Alan. I remember the day you called me and said, have you heard of this thing called DevOps?

It just got the domain. Why don't you go learn something about it and tell me if we should do something with this. You know, how does this sit with you?

Well, you Know, it, it's funny, I I just published a, a piece yesterday on this and um, and I said in there that, hey, if you would've told me 10 years ago, DevOps adoption rates would be what they are. And the ima, and not only, you know, for a long time, Mitchell, my theory of DevOps was tiny bubbles of DevOps, where we didn't really have, we didn't see DevOps adopted across organizations. We saw DevOps adopted within bubbles within organizations.

So individual teams and, and within an organization. Just because one team was using Jenkins, let's say, didn't stop another team from using CircleCI or, or some other CI CD tool, there wasn't kind of standardization. There was, it was, it was the wild west, right?

There were tiny bubbles of DevOps. And, and some of them worked and some of them don't. And whoever screamed the loudest got all the noise, you know, made most of the noise, got all the attention.

So if your team didn't do well, all of a sudden at the C level, they're saying, well, DevOps doesn't work. You know, Mitch, Mitch was really b******g about it. But if Mike screamed louder about all the great things they would do, and they were saying, Hey, we need a plan to adopt DevOps, right?

Uh, 'cause Mike's team's done great with it, but we're finally at a point now where a critical mass of organizations are adopting this nation, uh, not nationwide, organizationally organization-wide. And here's another little thing, right? Platform engineering being adopted by 20% of organizations that's sizable.

It's still, it hasn't crossed the chasm, right? 15% is early adopter and you get into that mainstream, but it's so, it's on its way. I'm not saying it won't, but for all the talk about DevOps being dead and it doesn't scale and, and all the other things we've heard from some camps over the last few years, poppycock, right?

I think the numbers threw it out. I think there's two, I can't believe he said that, but got, Oh, no. Okay.

I'm gonna, I I'm, I'm just saying every time I hear someone say DevOps is dead, it makes me think of when people say agile is dead. And usually for me, uh, the people who are carrying that banner probably don't really understand that well By the waterfall industry. But Mitch can.

Yeah, Mitch, Well, I'm gonna generalize so it's not gonna be totally accurate, but it seems to me that kind of the way platform engineering folks look at DevOps tends to fall in one of two camps. There's the people who DevOps failed this 'cause it didn't do all the things that we needed to it to do for us. It helped some people, but it didn't help everybody.

And then the other group who is now, uh, platform engineering is part of DevOps, or it's an extension of DevOps and it's kind of fulfilling other parts. Maybe we left the developer behind a little bit, but now we're focusing on that. Or maybe we need to standard configurations.

That was one of those problems we always need to fix, but now we're doing it. But it was very customer centric. Back to DevOps.

So I, I'm okay with the DevOps is dead because it causes a conversation about, well, is it really? No, it's actually, I think of DevOps kind of an umbrella of philosophies, a collection of philosophies about how to create software, not technologies that spread into finops and DevSecOps and platform engineering and SRE in a lot of different areas. So I've said way too much hope here.

I want to get, 'cause you're, you are like totally on top of platform engineering and what's happening. I'd love to get your perspective too. I, I agree with you that DevOps is pretty pervasive in technology.

So, uh, a platform engineering team is using DevOps principles. They are often using the same tools, um, in, in some of the same ways as the teams that they are serving. So DevOps is, I think it's not an or it's an, it's an and to whatever other practices you have.

And I also think part of the, the push for, for DevOps to be more widely adopted is there is this big run up to the cloud that seems to be leveling out a little bit now and some people are, are, are starting to pull back. But it was a lot easier to work with a small team in-house and not use DevOps principles and practices. But now once you are saying we're going to, um, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud scale across teams that are in multiple locations now, DevOps is really helping you get the work done that you need to get done.

So I think platform engineering also, but I think DevOps is, is very critical to those companies that need to scale in that way. At the risk At, At the risk of looking at the glasses being, uh, half full. Um, I wonder if the numbers kind of suggested maybe there's a little complacency in the system.

Yeah. You know, we have 20% of the folks who are investing aggressively and the rest are kind of coming along in a longer term cycle. And yet we hear all the time that businesses are more dependent upon software than ever.

We're in this AI era. We're more code than ever. People are talking about how we might be building more apps in the next two years than we built in the last decade.

I'm not seeing that in level of investment in the numbers though. So I, you know, I've gotta wonder, Do you think part of it is because some feel they've already made the required investments so they're, so I think that's, you know, that's A small part. Yes.

No one I think is saying they're done investing if that's what you're getting at hope. But Mike, I, I thought about this 'cause we spoke about it, uh, on Monday, and I've been thinking about it now for a couple days. I think you're looking at it wrong with all due respect, right?

I think what you are, what this has captured is exactly the buying cycle of the tech market, whether it's DevOps, security cloud native, uh, ERP or anything else. And it's what makes the world go round and round with these, uh, buyer intent type of campaigns that hey, we do 'em here at Techstrong as well as at probably every other tech media vendor. Here's how the world works.

You got a hundred percent of your tech market, no matter what market that is at any given time, only a small percentage of that a hundred percent are in an active buying cycle, right? Where they're planning on buying, let's say, depending on the product within the next one to two months, three to four months, six months, right? The rest of the people are entire kicking information gathering mode, and they don't have a budget in place for a project, but they'd like to, they wanna stay on top of it.

They want to be in the know they want to, maybe they're making a case for a budget. I think 20% of people who are actually planning on upgrading indicates a pretty high level of active projects at any one time that are, you know, in various stages of planning that are going out there. But I don't think that's unusual for the tech world in general.

And it's quite frankly why finding, you know, those active buying cycle shoppers is such a premium for vendors who come to companies like Techron looking for those people. You both have a good point and, and you know, I've been giving sort of the, the vanity numbers, right? Kind of more the higher end things.

To your point, Mike, I think there's a couple of things in charts in the, in the report, I think are telling of where we are. One of them is we looked from 2014 to now, the percentage of respondents are that adopted, uh, DevOps in that year going each year. And it's a steady graph going up.

It's not a hockey stick. It's going up and kind of it's tapering off maybe leveling. It's not leveling, it's just not growing as aggressively.

Okay. So why is that we reach, are we reached some maturation, disillusioned, then there's something else. Well, I think that's the point too, because there's another chart of where are, how would you describe your maturity at DevOps?

And we use terms like getting started. We are operationalizing it, we're standardizing it, we're we're mastering it, right? And it's very much a bell curve.

So we're the most, most about a third of the people we're in the standardizing that middle phase and the equal, equal sides, uh, 21, 20 2% on both sides. We're operationalizing not ready to, quite ready to standardize and mastering on the other end of it. So we've got, uh, basically 75% of people who are still moving over to getting into standardizing, uh, place.

And, and some will master too. So there's, to your point, Mike, this is a, this is a continuum, a maturity curve. And it isn't like, oh, good, you know, we have 85% of the people own electric vehicle now then, you know, electric if electric vehicle won the war.

No, we're, we're still in this growth phase of adoption and it's also a moving target. What DevOps was in 2000 14, 18, 20 is different than what it is today. Fair.

Do you think that vendors understand that continuum? Because, you know, sometimes we talk to them and they're all like, you know, we want buyers who are buying next week. And, you know, it seems like it's a little unreasonable in terms of the, the, the, what they call the proverbial funnel.

It, it is. Um, I I think it's just some vendors, you know, if, if I own a bakery, I want to think everyone loves cake, right? Everyone needs a cake.

Everyone take a cake home today. Not necessarily true. And, um, part of the challenge, I had this conversation with someone recently talking about how many organizations and, and we are at the leading edge of the curve here.

So how many organizations still don't really know what they're gonna do with CI or really know what they're gonna do with c cd and are still scaling up, still figuring that out. So now you have a vendor come in who says, Hey, you know what, if you give me, uh, $4,000 a year for every developer on your team and you have a hundred developers, we'll help you get that started. Well, you know, I don't think I need that badly, right?

And especially if you consider where the economy is right now, um, a lot of organizations are just watching, watching their pennies. So I think vendors are gonna push. Everybody should have cake.

Everyone loves cake, but I don't think it's universally Let, Let me cake. Hey, we gotta take a break here on, on Textron Organic. We're gonna come back and talk about, you know, uh, uh, cybersecurity pros, wary of AI generated code.

Again, as I said earlier, shocking. Um, you are watching Text on Gang. In a world where every line of code powers the future, every keystroke can introduce new threats.

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Register now and secure your place in tomorrow's world. All right, folks. Hey, before we jump into this next block, which is kind of related to the first block anyway, um, we did wanna point out you can download this report on the Textron research site, I believe.

com that has a summary of the research that you can find on the site and has a link to the research where you can download this article. So we invite you all to go check out both those things and let's jump into our next topic here. But, um, there's a survey out from, uh, Orcutt, I believe it was, who's talking about the cybersecurity folks as talent's point are afraid.

Of course, you know, they're afraid of everything. So there's sub truth to that. But their point is, um, a lot of this code that's being generated has been trained on examples of code that are flawed.

So it may be introducing more vulnerabilities into production environments. And the question becomes hope to you, you know, is a lot of this stuff a ticking time bomb? Because we're gonna wind up with more vulnerabilities than ever in our software.

I believe that is true. And, and to the point, uh, restating for emphasis, this code is generated based on the patterns. It is learned from a lot of existing code, which could include insecure coding practices, um, SQL injection flaws, uh, cross scripting vulnerabilities, buffer overflows, all of these things.

But the software, uh, does not know this. It, it doesn't know unless it has been told. And if the good example it has been given is a falsey example, then that is what it will perpetuate.

So yes, if someone can understand, uh, what those vulnerabilities are, one sort of related, I don't know if you saw this week where someone figured out how to make chat GPT steal information by, by sort of retraining and, and changing how it looked at things. Um, they issued a patch. But, um, once those faults are introduced, they, they are magnified.

And, and again, um, the way that AI works, it is so much faster than we are. So that one vulnerability is introduced, it learns that now it has spread it to 4,000 developers in one organization. And to fix it, you have to go back into all of that code.

So, um, I think it is a big problem. Hopefully, uh, someone gets a handle on it pretty soon, but for now, uh, I think we're still in the phase of watch and see. So I, I got some thoughts on this.

Again, shocking. Um, first of all, I should mention though that in our DevOps next report there is a, a, a whole section on AI and what people think the impact's gonna be on DevOps and development. com.

I do encourage everyone go over, click on the link in any of the articles, download the full report. It is behind a red wall. I'm sorry, but this took a lot of effort and work on our part and someone's gotta pay for it.

Um, so, but do download this report. It, it's a must have if you're in the DevOps space. Back to this AI generated code though, you know, I've been in security a long term, long term and this is just another in a long list of security people digging in their heels until they gotta get a new pair of shoes.

'cause no one gives a flying. You know what, right? People are not gonna stop generating code using ai 'cause the security people are running around yelling, the sky is falling.

We got two choices here. Make it better and get with the program or stay back as the train leaves the station. 'cause the train's leaving the station.

I think we need to focus our efforts on how do we make those models better? How do we eliminate the buffer overflows and the sequel injections and the bad code from poisoning the well, does that mean we use just custom LLMs? Do we continue to refine that?

Do we build in some sort of tests for these things? All of the above, but to sit and yell and scream and say that we are wary of this code and no, you can't do it. This is why they don't invite us to the table, right?

And we got to eat lunch by ourselves. I don't think they're saying that. Um, though I think they all recognize in the survey that they have no control over the developers that are gonna do it anyway.

I think what they're saying is that trade is pulling out of the station and we expect it to be off the tracks in about six Bucks. You always trade up. We always do.

You know what? That's not, you know, the security industry, the boy who cried wolf, you just can't keep crying wolf every time something new comes out. Either make it better or stop b******g.

So I I I am surprised that I am not heard Alan say one word, Deb SecOps just usually his answer. All Right, I'm I I'm gonna, 'cause that's what I was gonna say is without saying DevSecOps, which I just did, is it goes back to your maturity of your software process and your security practices in your development all all the way through into production. Yes.

There's, like you were talking to Alan, we will see more secure LLMs or LLMs that are generating better and more secure code. That's gotta be a focus that's gonna happen. It's an obvious thing that will happen.

We, we know and expect that. The other part of it is you're, you gotta look at it systemically, right? The entire pipeline, the workflow, everything that's happening, just like introducing open source or images from a repository, um, or online, you know, source.

This is another source of code, right? And so we have to have a, a better, more mature software process that checks for security, that analyzes it, that looks for faults and APIs that might have designed or whatever it is. So the, I think the more mature you are in DevOps, DevSecOps, the better off you'll be to handle, um, AI generated code.

Zig DevSecOps, I'm not gonna say that word again 'cause that'll be the third time. And Michael Keaton's liable to pop out here somewhere. Well, um, hope, what do You think?

I think, um, I think it does depend on the maturity of the organization to a degree. But even among some mature organizations, they're, you know, they're, they're just not seeing, um, they're not seeing the payoff from AI as far as developers writing code. And then if we really focus in on, on the security piece, one of the other things that does come to mind to me is, um, there's also a risk of developers becoming too reliant on the AI without doing their own due diligence.

Because let me tell you, I have written code in my time that was just, I'm just gonna make this thing work. You know? And then there have been times where I have gold plated, it sat there and you know, ma it is perfect.

Uh, there, there is a level at which you can just have things squeaked through. It may pass tests depending on the tests you wrote, other things like that. But if there is not a conscientious person, um, who is paying attention, who knows what to look for on the other side of the keyboard, this will continue to be a problem.

I think even after things, things advance and, and, and to your point, Alan, it's, it's going to be an ongoing cycle. Um, but we are just at the early stages of it. So it seems really scary right now.

Uh, and it is, but I am waiting. I am waiting. Not, not, not with Glee and not with any sort of, you know, sha but for the first story to come out where there's a major company who admits this problem, this security issue that we have encountered was because we used a, a tool and, and we relied on it too much.

And, and now here we are. So are, are you saying that if we don't test code for being affected with vulnerabilities, that the vulnerability doesn't exist? Is that what you're saying?

Uhhuh? Let's say I made Remind, what was, what was the TV show? Billy Crystal?

Like you can't see me now? Um, yeah, soap. Soap.

It was soap Soap. Well, we'll say, I mean, I, I just, as we've said about it, it, it's, it's coming. I think it'll get better.

Anyway, let's take a break. We've got our third block here to go over what's going on in California. Mike, we're gonna come to you, but right now you're watching Textron, a Discover Textron group, the epicenter of tech innovation.

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All right, folks, we've been talking on multiple stones now about this AI bill that has been, uh, put forward in the state of California. And, um, governor Gavin Newsom decided that this was not a good idea after all, and b, out it, the issue seems to be mainly to what degree do you need to actually, uh, share your AI model with the government to get it approved before you put it in production. And it looks like the governor probably said that we probably don't have the resources to do that.

But Alan, I would love to get your take on this because by default is Gavin Newsom now essentially the AI czar for the United States of America? Well, my take on this is it's an election year and we don't want the perception to be that those crazies out in California are just looking to regulate everything. And, you know, one of the major party candidates was from ca is from California too.

And she's liable to want to do that too. And so this is a way of saying, Hey, we're not, we're not the radicals here. We're not, this isn't the extremist.

We're, we're middle of the road. We're all pro business. And I think that is playing a big role in this.

That being said, Hey, wake up and smell the coffee. California's been leading this country on consumer safety, software safety, on, on, on issues that are important that we don't have the political will to deal with on a national level for decades. And, and, and thank God for them.

I mean, sometimes they do go too far. I'm not saying they don't, but someone here has to because our Congress has abdicated their responsibility for, for these kinds of things. So more power to Gavin in California.

I I applaud 'em for taking this action right now. 'cause politically it's a bad time to do it. But I, I think we need to, they're gonna reexamine this post-election and maybe take care of some of the rough edges you pointed out Mike, but, um, that's, that's, that's Shimmy's take on.

It Reminds me of the song when I was a kid. Every party needs a pooper. That's why we invited Gavin.

I gotta be on Pooper on Party S. That song. It must be in Nebraska.

It's a, it's a heard song. Yeah. Yep.

That's why we invited you. No, he didn't wanna be the pooper on the ai. I'll be, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be declining that invitation from Mitchell and Don't send your kids to Mitchell's parties.

We had some weird Parties when I Was growing up. I'm sorry. No, I think you're right about the election year and yeah, I don't know enough of details about the bill.

Um, but it, it may have just been too heavy handed or how do you enforce it? That's the other side of this is the enforcement of what's the cost to companies and how much of a wet blanket are you putting on them to carry the load of demonstrating the safety. I mean, safety is an issue.

I mean, it, it's, it's a valid concern, but you know what other things tend to rule out? And at the end of the day, Getting worried that there'll be multiple instances of various laws, and there might be one set of laws in red states and one set of laws of blue states, and it's a pain in the ass to deal with that. And eventually everybody gets together and says, even if I don't like the law, I'd rather have one instance of it versus 2, 4, 5.

I Don't four in the US you'll never get that. You, you think the Ken Paxon over in Texas is, is gonna set foot in California. He's probably wanted there for what he should have been arrested for in Texas.

But, um, in, in any event, here's how it works. You don't wanna follow the California law, that's fine. Don't do business with anyone in California.

They're the fifth largest economy in the world. How good. You wanna write that off?

Be my guest. That's real politics. All right.

Well it, if I'm in a red state and I don't like the law, Don't do business in California or don't do business in Texas or wherever, Florida or wherever it may be. And those are smaller economies or they bigger Well, they're, they're, they're, they're not as big as California, but, and that, that's a case too. If there's a conflicting law, well, according to our constitution, the, the Supreme Court and the federal courts have a obligation to rule on conflicting laws like that.

Given the current state of our judiciary. I don't have, I have about as much faith as them as I have in the Congress. And you know, this is, this is the state of it.

So make your choice. You wanna follow the woke, the anti woke Florida law and throw books out Or, or A law made in in California. I mean, where do you do more business?

Where what, you know, it comes down to money, as Mitchell said. Can you tell where I stand on this? Have I been wishy-washy?

Like no, I'm just wondering what was in your post toast This morning? Got you. This wasn't been books, that's for sure.

But, um, Web, but you know, this go Figure. But this also reminds me, um, a little bit of the, the formation of all of these rules like hipaa, GDPR, California, you know, they have c consumer protection, C-P-A-I-I-I think it may end up being fragmented in that way, but even with those regulations around compliance, um, people are finding ways to make them work. And they have spawned industries.

Yes, they right it are making job security Money. Yeah. Making sure, but, but GVPR is a perfect example.

We, you know, you may not ever set foot in Europe. You may not have an an office in Europe, but if you wanna sell to Europeans and serve Europeans, you've gotta be GDPR compliant. And now, I mean That, that's, and I think the truth of the matter is, if you comply with Europe, you're gonna be good everywhere.

So you, maybe you just go without one and then you don't have to worry about all the rest. And they have, um, what an AI act in Yes, they do. It's a risk based, Well, it doesn't go started enforcement penalties.

It doesn't go to enforcement yet. I thought the penalties just started. They just thought the penalties Just started down.

I believe so. I thought they were out for a year or something, Mitch. Yeah, I could be wrong.

I could be wrong. I thought they were, they just came on board. But I'll check, I'll double check that.

Yeah, because I think that's gonna be, um, a great, a great thing to watch and learn from. And maybe it will also inform Cal, not only California, but every other, you know, state in the United States and the federal. I think there's an interesting dynamic that goes on here as a result of the EU being more aggressive about these things, is that our congress and our politicians say, you know what?

We don't have to do anything. Let's let the Europeans send that te test balloon out and see how it works. And if it works, we just, you know, we'll go with them.

We don't have to turn off anyone. We don't have to turn down anybody's any lobbyist money or anything like that. And, uh, and, and let the Europeans deal with it.

Now, do I think that ultimately is what's good for our country? No, but I think that's, that's the reality of, of the world we're in right now. There are folks right now who are listening to you screaming, we are not gonna give up our sovereignty to know who's stinking European Union and we will decide for ourselves.

Absolutely. They drive around down here with the pickup trucks, with all the flags and everything. That's it.

But that's okay. They probably, they don't do a lot of business with people in Europe. Yeah.

Except sell their grain for The farm. I know. That's how far There's no farmers in book Ratone Mitchell.

Oh really? No, they just around. Well, I thought flags.

Oh, okay. You know, I thought they were gator hunters or something. I dunno.

What do you do down In Florida? Actually, Florida beer than gator hunters are iguana hunters, uh, you know, by the HOA board where I live, we've got an iguana problem. They're overwhelming the, the neighborhood.

And they, the only way to get rid of 'em is you gotta hire iguana hunters. Literally guys who just sit out there shooting iguanas. Uh, oh.

And I, God, that's what happens when you buy swamp land. You know, God know Some, some people in Florida just let loose a bunch of cats, but then you wind up In a lot of fer Pitts. Yes, there is that.

I know those awanas are pretty big. I don't know if those cats can take 'em down. They're beast.

Anyway, where did we come, where did we go off the track here? What the hell happened? It started right from we straight off off the track today, we and Mitch, that they're not growing grain in Boca Rat Ratone.

No, no. They, they, I'm traveling down there. Check that out.

Don't know farm. When I first moved down here, we used to have farms and you could go like buy farm fresh produce and gleaning the fields, gleaning the fields and stuff. Uh, they've, they've taken them all down to build gated communities, you know, and, uh, especially out west a bit as you get into the glades.

And, um, it is what it is. Anyway, though, I, I look, I, I don't think we've heard the last of California legislating a, uh, let's stay tuned after the, uh, after the election. Guys, I think that puts a wrap on today's text drug gang.

I wanna remind people again, go download that DevOps next report. It's a great report. Um, also, I just wanna say today is, or tonight begins the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah.

I, I grew up calling it Rosh Hashanah, but now they call it Rosh Hashanah. And, uh, it's an, it's an, you know, it's the time supposedly where God opens the books and sees what you have in store for the year. And you have, you've been naughty and nice and, and all of that.

And, and as we enter, you know, these are the high holidays for the, for the Jewish religion. And as we enter this period, it's a time I, there's a lot of stuff going on in the world, especially in the Middle East, in Israel and Lebanon and Gaza and everywhere else, and as well as in Ukraine and in other places in the world. And if we ever do need a, a, a year of peace and wishes for peace, this is probably a good year.

So to all those who celebrate a happy and sweet New year, and let it be a peaceful year, and that's it for today. I'm Alan Schumer. We're out.