Techstrong Gang – May 12, 2025

Hey everyone. Have we broken the internet again? You're watching Textron Gang.

Hi everyone, it's Alan Shimel, and happy Monday to you all. I hope you all had a great weekend. I did.

You're watching Text on Gang, you know, uh, we've got a great week this week of Text Strong Gang. I'm excited. I've got a lot of stuff going on here at Techstrong.

There's a lot of stuff going on in the industry. We're gonna hear from some of our gang members what they've got going on, but there's a lot going on out there too. Can't wait to talk to you about it.

Let me introduce you to our gang for today. First of all, I don't know if he is also in DC going to the portrait, uh, gallery tour or back home in Austin. Guy Currier of Futurum and vi well, VI Principal Analyst.

How are you guy? I'm real good. Thanks.

I'm actually on my way out in your direction, uh, heading out your direction. So I'm at the airport heading to Orlando for the Click Connect conference, so That's right. Very cool.

Very cool. On a weekend. Uh, it is.

Does Monday count something? Well, it's Monday and that's true. It's gonna be another busy week on Click Connect.

Very cool. All right. Moving from Guy, one of our newest gang members with our, one of our cyber cyber sleuths, Teri Robinson.

Hey, Terry, how Are you? Hi, I'm great, uh, on this sort of rainy New York Day. Oh, it's rainy.

I'm sorry. That's okay. But, you know, well, I was gonna say it's April showers May flowers, but it's May already, isn't it?

It's May. That's right. Looking for those flowers.

Yep. Good for you. All righty.

Joining us. Uh, I'm gonna assume he's home in Guitar Land, not Nashville. Denver.

Mitch Ashley Fu, VP DevOps Analyst. Hey, Mitchell. How are you, man?

Doing good. Just working in the guitar store this day, you know, we'll open the doors and have some folks come in and Do a little selling coming up here. No, no, it's not the guitar store.

Well, look, man's gotta make a living. Um, you know. Yep.

And then he's still in DC it looks like from the looks of things. He's our Chief Content Officer, Mike Vizard, that has a distinct look of a hotel room, doesn't it? It is distinctly a hotel room.

Yes. It's one of those, you know, westins, that book alike, no matter what city you're in, they all look the same. Yeah.

But they all have a great bed. Yeah, that's true. Right?

Um, yeah. Hey, Mike, how are you? I'm well.

I'm looking forward to taking the train home this afternoon. And, you know, I keep asking them to let me drive, but they keep saying no. Tell 'em your name's Hoo.

Charlie. I don't know if that might be a little over some of you, but, um, anyway, let's, let's move along. So, is the internet broken again, Mike?

Have, has, has our encryption failed? What's going on? So there's this research paper coming outta China, and it's only a research paper, so I don't think we should freak out just yet, but it suggests that we can now predict the sequence or order of which prime numbers might come through.

And that's kind of the key to how all of our encryption works. So this could be a significant problem. Terry, I know you looked into it and you're a long time, uh, follower of all things cybersecurity.

What's your take Here? Well, first I wanna say that I feel like everything I believe from childhood is slowly being dismantled. Um, now it's, we're talking about prime numbers.

Um, my, my, uh, recently departed math teacher, Sandra McCall is probably, uh, looking down and would wonder here. Um, so these researchers in, uh, in, uh, Hong Kong and, uh, in the United States published a paper. And basically what they said is prime numbers aren't as random as we thought that they, they were.

Um, and they actually also included sort of, um, a periodic table of primes, which is, uh, a lot like the chemistry periodic table. And, um, you can predict what the next prime is gonna be, and you can do it relatively quickly, which has the potential then to, to, uh, upend, um, encryption because that's behind, uh, you know, RSA and, and just about every other en encryption form that we have. So, um, that's why people are talking about it.

Um, whether or not it turns out to be a big, uh, blow up or not is, is definitely a question. Um, it's something to look at. And if it's not gonna be this, it's gonna be something else like quantum computing that's probably gonna, um, mess up, uh, uh, encryption as we know it today.

So, do I have this right now, I'm also looking at these new LLMs and they all have more advanced reasoning capabilities, and some of them can do math now. So rather than waiting for quantum, will somebody just take one of those and start applying it to predicting random numbers? And we could be in a lot of trouble Together.

We think. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, depending on who you talk to about this particular issue, that's, that's the case. Some people are like, okay, maybe it's not gonna be so bad.

And other people are going, well, in fact, with, um, you know, the large language models and everything, it's, it could be a lot faster than we thought. Um, without that, um, quantum is expected to sort of upend things within the next decade, I would say. Um, it's gonna be quicker than that.

Right. And Alan, as you well know, the bad guys are harvesting the encrypted data now on the assumption that they're gonna crack it later. So, you know, all our secrets are gonna be up there one way or another.

They are. They already are. They already are.

Let, let's be real. But look, here, here's my take on this one. Let's not run around yelling that the sky is falling and the internet is broken just yet.

There, there's a, there's a long way away from saying I could predict what the next prime number is, and using an LLMI could predict the next prime number faster than humans can to actually using that to break, let's say an RSA algorithm. Encrypt encryption algorithm. There's a lot, you know, using normal computers, not super duper crazy computers that maybe the NSA has to brute for some of these RSA certificates would take like hundreds of years.

And so maybe using this technology, it only takes 35 years. Okay? I'll live with 35 years.

Quantum is much, is a, I think a much more deadlier, uh, threat to modern encrypt to present day encryption, because in quantum it has the promise of breaking it in a few minutes, right? And, but here's the good news. Here's the good news for once NIST and, and, and mire and, and the industry appear to be out ahead of this, and we've got these post quantum algorithms that are already finding their way into DigiCert certificates, for instance, and some of the other certificates that are being used out there.

And we're, we're making certificates that expire a lot faster, right? We're expiring our certificates now, not in 90 days or 180 days or a year, but we, we want 'em, they want us get down to expiring them every month. So you are going to be updating to the latest technology in your certificate encryptions.

Now that information that, you know, like hash, you know, bundles of, of info every day that goes by, that information becomes less and less valuable because it's less and less current and less and less correct. So, you know, we've got a new American Post Pope peace beyond to all of you. Don't, don't worry just yet.

I don't, I don't, I think this is a red hairy, You know what it, Terry, it reminds me of what you were saying about, you know, the thing, the things you believed in, kind of being disproven. Take me back to math. Math in high school and college where we looked up random numbers in a table in a book.

They're really just pseudo random. They weren't really random. Um, but if we have a periodic table for prime numbers to be able to predict that, it's really, it doesn't take an AI system to do that once you've got those, that table out, right?

So this something that widespread use, and, and I think I remember I weren't they calling it like crypto agile or some kind of a algorithm is what yes. Is working on. And course there's also not just, um, quantum breaking current encryption, but also quantum encryption, which would be, you know, that much more difficult to break with anything.

So I'm glad to hear, Alan, that you see this as a kind of a nen burger from a cybersecurity standpoint. I'm just blown away from this, a mathematical standpoint From mathematics. This is big news, This foundational elements of mathematics.

I I agree. Unpredictability, All of our math teaches is Pattern and prime numbers. Yep.

Um, makes me think of Cold Fusion as a, as a non-expert and wonder if it's gonna be, you know, uh, disproved or refuted, you know, WW soon enough. I, I just, you know, we should take a moment, all of us to think e even if you not an expert in math, how fundamental the concept of how prime numbers work is going back centuries and there being a different way that they work, uh, could easily have much bigger imp implications across it, honestly, including in quantum, uh, that we couldn't predict right now. So It'll be interesting.

And I, I do agree, Terry. I think all of our math teachers are spinning, spinning in their graves over this, right? I mean, it is like you're shaking the foundation in trouble, deep themself.

I think we're in trouble deep if we're counting on the Pope to say a prayer for us at this point. 'cause usually that's the last thing that you say when you got lap, Right? When all else fails, turn to God.

So we have poping tweet. So you tweet, he tweet out. Well, I, I don't know.

I'm, I'm sorry I took us down that path. I apologize. I, I was bringing religion into I was gonna say too, I mean, it's also not like the industry is standing still on this.

Um, you know, and just seeing where it spins out and the work that NIST is doing is, is, uh, you know, quite interesting and, you know, and ongoing and, and it kind of gets away from that single assumption that all of this has been, you know, based on before. And, and, uh, I think, you know, maybe there's gonna be some movement there that, that counters whatever might come from, um, from, uh, prime numbers not being random anymore. But, um, yeah, we'll see.

Um, it's, it's up in the air right now, but that's something to follow, right? And look closely at as we go forward. I, I'm interested to see the mathematicians weigh in as well.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm look and research is good. I'm, you know what that, that's why it's important to fund research just for science cycle alone, right? 'cause you don't know what you're gonna turn up and what the commercial applications of it will be.

Anyway, let's take a break here on Text and gang. Let's come back. And we're talking Nats not the Washington Nationals, but you're watching Text on Gang.

Hey folks. We're back. And we're talking about another one of those instances where somebody decided they had open source regret maybe, and they were gonna try to take back their project.

And there was a big kerfuffle over this. And then it turns out that the, it's still open source, but it's a slightly different, uh, flavor of it maybe. Or it came to some agreement about the trademarks.

We'll get into the details, but it involves something called Nats, which as I understand it, is a framework for communications across clouds involving APIs and microservices. And it's a, from an outfit called, uh, Sonata. And, um, most people never heard of either one of these companies until this happened, Mitch.

So, you know, is this kind of like, you know, marketing in some level? Well, it, it's my third generation of Nats. Of course there's the Nats that fly around then network, ad address translation service, which is a networking thing that gives you an address that you can, don't, don't need to get from the internet.

And you know, as you said, you said it really well, you nailed it. You know, it's a communication substrate, uh, for talking across cloud, between microservices, kind of inner service communication. 9% of the world wouldn't know what it was even if you explained it to 'em.

'cause they don't need to know. And it's not that important. But, but it is important because, um, NATS has a, a lot of capabilities built into it and is used in, in a number of, uh, pieces of software.

It's also got like a, a streaming capabilities, like a Kafka kind of solution. And so this keeps it in, uh, in the CNCF governance structure, the support, certification, all that kind of thing. Um, so it also, there was also at least some trademark issues too that were coming up about that and how that, whether that can be transferred to the Lennox Foundation, you know, all the lawyers, I guess the Pope got into it, and all the lawyers, you know, calmed down and, and agreed to whatever they agreed to so they could, so they could keep this open source.

But, but this is a great example of the flexibility in open source, right? So you got this company that, as Mike said, maybe had some open source remorse, right? My God, why did I release this open source?

I could have been making money on all these things, and we're not, you got the community and the LF and everyone up in arms about them looking a pull. You, you once it, you know, it's like that butterfly leaving your hands once it's outta your, or Jonathan Livingston Seagull, for those of you who remember, once you set it free, if it comes back, it's yours. If it does it, it never was.

And, and so it's out there now as, as there, there's a link to an article in the register. And as usual, your, your register takes a snarky, snarky title for clickbait. They didn't tell 'em to fork off, but, but you are always free to fork an open.

You wanna take, you wanna take an open source project and fork it and maybe close that off from that point forward changes you make. But you, you do that. You, you get you doing that, right?

The half the security industry was doing it when Mitchell and I were doing still secure, right? Under the covers, it was all Snort or Nessus or Nmap, or a combination thereof. It's the way of the world.

There's nothing, nothing new here. Move along. Uh, but we didn't have things like the Linux Foundation and the CNCF back then that would give these orphaned projects that their, you know, commercial originators were looking to move away from or buried deep, um, a place to live.

And, and that's one of the nice things about today's open source world is you do have the lf, the Apache Foundation, the CNCF and others that give these, these projects a home that own the IP that do make sure that there will always, there is an open source version that is gonna be continued to be developed, right? Because right, like when Tenable stopped making an open source, Nessus, Nessus, what was it? 4, Mitch?

Yep. 7. Not an open source anyway.

Right? I still feel like though, um, the, the bigger issue here is what's most, you know, sailing it, which is, um, I, I still feel like no, no vendor has really figured out how to profit from open source. Let, let's divide open source standards or open standards, sorry, from open source software.

We're talking about open source software here, things with licensing, so forth, even open source software as licensing. Um, I, I, you know, Cincinnati is based complaint, right? Was, uh, this is our, the nobody's come to play with us.

So we're doing everything for this. And, uh, why should we just give our engineering away for free? Let's, we're gonna, we want to take it back.

No, no one is, that's why it's so important, Mitch. I think that's why it's so important, because somehow it's unimportant enough for there to be a lot of contributors. Meaning, meaning, uh, other vendors or, or institutions even, you know, public institutions.

They're not investing in, you know, development talent to really get what's going on here with Nats. I don't know, NATS, I'm just saying, you know, so they're not investing in that, so they're not making contributions. So Cincinnati is sitting there saying, well, you know, we, we've done all the investment.

Why, why should, why should other people get to use it without us profiting from it? Well, Ellen and I went through this learning curve around open source, you know, believing, oh, many eyes, many contributors. The real, the reality of it is that most open source project, there is a one or just a handful, very small handful.

There's six at most. Yeah. Uh, or even that, it's two or three oftentimes, maybe even one.

Um, and doesn't mean they're not good project. They're great. They can be great projects and widely used, but it does, that's one of the risks that companies are realizing now in, in open source part of the assessment is who are the people maintaining it?

Are they active? What happens if they go Away through that time? It falls, it falls apart.

Yep. Exactly. But that, that's what I'm getting.

So, so I, I feel like it's obvious you have to invest in it anyway. You have to invest in creating the product. If you're investing in creating the product and providing an open source, and you're the only one doing it, well, it's your business model to create this stuff in the first place.

And it's your responsibility, whether it's proprietary to you or open source, it's still your responsibility to sell it, resell it, have a go to market model, have a marketing model, you know, all of that sort of thing. So my, my sense is that Cincinnati has, has fallen down in those areas there. If there's no market for it at all, okay, then there's no market for it at all.

Whether it was open source or not. If there is a market for it, you can profit thereby. And this, I think one of the original ideas in open source was, we're gonna, it's gonna be open source software and we're gonna, we're gonna profit off of services.

Well, but that's, that's not really so, no, but, But you know what, I'm, I'm somewhat of an expert on open source business models, right? So first of all, there have been successful open source companies. Of course, everyone always points to Red Hat.

But, but beyond that, in today's modern software ecosystem, there's a number of ways of, of having a successful open source business model. Number one, and probably most popular is, is the open core where the, the core of the project, of the product is in fact open. It may not have enterprise features, bonus features, the good stuff.

And those are premium, premium add-ons, right? So you could pursue an open core model, and, and there are a lot of companies who have done that, and they a lot of money. Very successful model.

Secondly is with the advent of SaaS software, right? Open source is, is not really known as being user friendly. You gotta set up your own server and everything else.

A lot of open source companies are saying, Hey, you wanna take the the code and go, you know, do the binaries and c set this up yourself. Have at it, good luck. You wanna just consume it as a service.

You could use Jenkins as a service or this as a service, and that is open source software, but you're paying us to host it, maintain it, secure it, updated for you, and make sure everything's all good. And there's a lot of companies who have done that with a SaaS model and, and have been very successful the pure, Hey, I'm gonna let you consume the open source, but I'm going to give you support and training. That's a failed model, right?

That doesn't work. And I would add, yeah, and I would add to the SaaS that it can be on-prem, it could be internal SaaS, it can even not be SaaS. It could be exposed through APIs managed.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay.

Managed, yeah. Manage wherever it is. I agree with you Alan.

Um, but that makes you a lot more like a traditional vendor, traditional software or traditional, uh, solution provider vendor. And I know what you are. It's just a question of the price.

Well, Alan, I gotta jump in with this. You know, one, one of the things we've learned about open source, you and I I think probably are like mines about this. I'm gonna quote the great philosopher, um, posthumously, George Michael, also a singer.

You know, you gotta have faith. You gotta have faith. There are, there are people who just believe in open source period and build companies with it.

And guess what? The user community figures that out. Those are the people we like.

They really, truly believe it. Seuss of the world. And there are people who, open source is a business model and conditions change will take it or leave it.

And those are the ones that tend to have not the true genuineness about it, that people pretty much sniff out and tell, and just wait for the crippled version and open source and the real version. I gotta buy in an enterprise version or whatever. I'm not saying you can't do that, but I think most of the, most of the development community, uh, and even platform engineers and technical folks, you know, really the people who enjoy open source really believe in it.

And they wanna work with companies that also are believers. Gotta have faith. Thank you very much, Mitchell.

Wham, Ashley. And, and that's a, and that's another thing we can ask the Pope to pray for. Yes.

Okay. I, I didn't realize. Well, he guy says he tweets maybe he, he's into, you know, he's in open source too, maybe.

I don't know. You know how you have to close the show now? You gotta close it.

Wake me up before you go. Go. You may have to take the one of those guitars down off the wall and play if you want us to close it like that, my friend.

Next Time. Next time. Alright.

Hey, we're gonna take a break here on Textron Gang. Let's come back to our v uh, C block. It's vexing VMware.

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Register now for free. Hey guys, we're back in. We're gonna revisit this whole adventure.

That guy and I went on to visit Nutanix in DC this week. And yesterday we talked about an alliance with Pure Storage, or actually last Friday. And now though, one of the things they were doing is touting themselves as an alternative to VMware.

And we all know about the VMware licensing changes and the, a lot of, uh, folks are upset about that. Let's just leave it at that for the moment. But Nutanix was out touting that they have now, you know, got some customers moving to their platform that includes small little construction companies to folks like Toshiba.

The question though is how viable is that option really? Because like even in Nutanix's case, they'll admit that there isn't that many IT administrators that are trained on it. They don't have as big a channel ecosystem and services provider partners.

And you need all these things to kind of make that migration work. And so, guy, I'm love to get your take on it, but almost every conference I go to now, somebody wants to beat up on VMware, and I'm like, okay, well that's just legitimate competition, but I can't get my finger around are these, you know, one-off examples of somebody doing something, or is this the start of a trend where we are gonna see these major migrations? I think it's probably a trend.

I think so. So first of all, can I ask this whole panel a question? Why did Broadcom buy VMware For, for market share Money?

I can't F That. I mean, I think that that Broadcom has been tied up in the VMware ecosystem for a very long time, certainly before NSX because of the tight connections between VMware and the infrastructure. And Broadcom of course, especially for switching, um, the backbone of these virtualized environments.

Uh, they've profited very much by that. But I, I've still, I personally, I still don't get it. There are a lot of explanations out there, um, market share being one of them, and I don't fully understand that.

How are they leveraging VMware, um, to gain market share elsewhere Or, yeah, no, I, I think Broadcom's broad and we, we saw this, you know, when Broadcom bought ca ca had amassed an amazing DevOps portfolio. One of the best out there Broadcom's model, as best as I can tell, is they already have 499 of the global, of the Fortune 500. They got 1,998 of the global 2000 and and so forth.

They're not necessarily looking for new customers. They're looking to sell more stuff to their existing customers. They look at VMware and say, what percentage of the global 2000 and Fortune 500 of VMware customers?

Very similar. So that makes sense with these moves that, that they've made from the beginning. Thank you, Alan.

Uh, there's certainly a favoring a reaving to the enterprise for the whole VMware portfolio. Uh, and, uh, to be, you know, uh, to be honest, uh, my impression from last week at the Nutanix conference is that Nutanix in general is, is a lot more of, let's say an intuitive operator, user friendly sort of approach to virtualization. Their core, of course, was storage, virtualization, hyper conversion infrastructure.

But in the last four years, they have quite aggressively expanded outside of that into compute into containers. Mitch, you, you, you wanted to add to this? Go Ahead and finish back.

I got something to say about this. Go ahead. Yeah.

Okay. So, so they are becoming a more complete virtualization and frankly abstraction platform if you count containers into it. I, um, a variation of what Alan said, I think you can, you can look at why do they buy 'em by looking at the actions that they took.

Broadcom is the new ca ca was really a roll up getting more and more products. They've been that from almost the beginning. And Broadcom has taken that very similar kind of tact.

And VMware is a captive market. It's as much as we talk about moving off of VMware, it is difficult. That is not, that was not for The ware.

Ah, but I have news for you there, Mitch. No, no. Everyone, everyone claims they're making it easy.

And Nutanix's not the only one trying to nibble at the edges of v of this VMware thing. But here's an interesting fact. I found out companies that are moving off VMware are not necessarily moving off because the licensing three X was the primary driver.

They're moving off because they don't want to get, they want to move off lock-in, they want to go to the cloud, they want more options and they don't get those options with VMware. And that's, that's a bigger reason to go into a Nutanix or any of the VMware bandits, Raiders, whatever. AWS included, right?

Is Hey, we're offering you more freedom. And doesn't that somewhat, George Michael too, Mitchell Freedom, I, I'm sure there's a wham quote we can find out. You know, wake up before you go, go.

I think effectively though, a lot of those alternatives are not as conducive alternatives simply because of the nature of the applications being hosted. I mean, Google put a one terabyte database into a container, I don't know, it's like five, six years ago now as a proof of concept, if nothing else. It doesn't mean that you wanna run something stateful on A container.

No, but a Ws they all have VMware replacements guy. They, we VMware I'm not saying that. I'm not saying they don't.

I'm saying the operations of it are very different. Cloud ops, very different from enterprise class enterprise. And that's a, that, that is partially a cultural, but just largely, uh, like to Mike's point that he's made several times and, and introduced us with, we're talking about an entire system of training certification, ena, partner enablement, uh, o original equipment manufacturer, like the, the, the pc the equipment, vendor enablement and all that sort of stuff.

So there's your answer that Really does not translate. So that really doesn't, but God, to your first Question, there's your answer. Why did Broadcom biome, I think you guys explained it really well.

I don't want to try and re-explain it. No, no, I think you just did. I think the other part, So I would po I would po I would posit a theory here though.

VMware may have miscalculated on how difficult it is to migrate. 'cause it is getting easier. It's not easy.

That's what I was, that's what I was saying. Yeah. It's Like, it'll, It'll, I can, there's nothing like a comet heading towards you for you to start thinking about, you know, uh, Ben a sending Ben Affleck and I Was just gonna say Bruce, Bruce Space.

Bruce, Ben Affleck and Steven Tyler's door to waiting for me. There We go. So, so there's this motivation, there's this mo this, there's a very strong motivation that these shops never had before because they were, these were individuals who've invested their resumes in their career in that platform.

And all of a sudden they're like, whoa. But I, but I think part of this though, And, and, and, and I should say Nutanix is being extremely aggressive in sales. I've seen some of the programs that, fair enough, I'm just talking about Nutanix because I've been briefed on it.

They, they're really aggressive in because they, they then, they've been aggressive in engineering. They, they've, they've, they have invested heavily and intensely over the last 12 months in making those migrations easier. Easier in many ways.

So we do a series of, of webinars with AWS channel partners and I, I personally hosted three or four of them where the whole gist of the webinar was here's how you move our VMware to AWS You've done them too, Mitch, everyone is trying to get at it. But here's the other thing. VMware is not a stationary target.

While Broadcom may be, you know, jacking up licensing, they're also honing VMware to be a better solution for those people who want what VMware has. And I think Guy and Mike both mentioned it, if you are already invested into that system, into that ecosystem In Tanz, it's not like you're on some ancient technology that's wasting away, they're maintaining it. And the, and the inertia around that is huge, just around the psychology of it.

I mean, people identify themselves as VMware administrators that, you know, they don't say I'm a generic administrator. They kind of attached themselves to VMware the same way DBAs used to attach themselves to Oracle. And it took years to Kind of Cisco.

Yeah. To see any, So, so, so let me, let me, let me explain then to people who probably don't need this explanation, what VMware really did, or I should say what Broadcom really did. It's not the changes in licensing, it's not any of that other sort of stuff.

The effect of what they did a year plus ago was to p**s people off, to p**s people off by making big changes that, that actually looked a lot worse in some ways than they were. But also with a restructuring with like, VMware had so many pet projects and they were pet to their buyers and their customers. So I, to me, that's what, that's what the industry is reacting to and smarting from.

It's, it's, it's, again, I, we always keep coming back to culture. They p**s them off and they are, they are. And they p****d partners off too.

They made every single partner real Thought. I, I think that was a a a, uh, they didn't do that blindly. It was a calculated move.

You know, the old saying better to be p****d off than p****d on. And they, you know, they made a decision. What percentage of that business would they be willing to lose by tripling the license and honing in on their, on the customer base that they want.

You know what, we could sit here and speculate, but, but who's the Broadcom? CEO Mitch, what's his name? H ha Hoan Ha Hoan hoan Hokan.

And, and, and I, he's Dar he's appreciate what you're, I really Well that's, I really appreciate what you, what you're saying, Alan. 'cause last week I was saying to Mike, when I don't understand what one of these folks does, I always know that there's something I'm miss, or well, there's almost always something I'm missing that I'm not seeing. And you're helping to explain that because it, it has come off to me very like off and, and, and, but I know that that Hakan and the, the leaders around him and that organization are super smart, very strategic.

I'm sure they had it figured, figured out to the fourth decimal point. Maybe not to the prime number. Yeah.

Anyway, so you're saying, what you're saying guys, is you don't wanna miss the thing, right? Exactly. Arm the peanut, the peanut gallery record company.

Alright, that's it. I'm gonna do some studying before the next Game, and you're gonna hear from me, Mitch, I'm gonna eighties pop music for 500. Alex, I'm, I'm gonna be trolling the Barry McClow catalog.

That's what I'm gonna look at. Guy will take wham for 200. Alright?

Um, remember to answer in the form of a question, guys. We gotta wrap it up. We gotta wrap it up.

For those of you traveling safe travels. For those of you out there, stay tuned. We've got, we got Techstrong TV coming at you right after this, so stay tuned for that.

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Until next, until tomorrow, I'm Alan Shimel. We're out.