Techstrong Gang – April 18, 2025

Hey everyone. It looks like CVE Got a last minute stay of execution. We're gonna discuss that and more.

You'll watching Textron Gang. Hi everyone, it's Alan Shimmel, and it's Friday, man. Friday.

Couldn't come fast enough this week for me. I just, you know, between the constant barrage of what goes on both in our country and in the rest of the world, what's going on in the tech world, what's going on in media and, and just everything, man, I, I could use a weekend and really happy. We'll be starting our weekend after text drunk tv, of course, today.

And we we're gonna kick off our text Drunk TV Day with as usual Textron Gang. Got a great gang to introduce you to today. Let me bring you to them.

First of all, I, this feels like a repeat of yesterday from our West Coast contingent right down in the valley. We've got Lisa Martin. Hey Lisa, how are you?

Hey, Alan, I'm great. Good to be here with you in the gang today. Good to see you.

And then high top, his secret perch at the very top of the Golden Gate Bridge Master of all that he sees. He's our tech editor at large, John Swartz. Hey, John, how are you?

I am good. It's good to see you. And I'm looking for today's show.

Excellent. Uh, moving over to Colorado where he's, he's got the guitars up there, uh, but his, his mind is on DevOps and Cloud native. I think he's future VP Analyst, Mitch Ashley.

Hey, Mitchell. How are you? Good to be here, by the way.

We need to change the name Textron Gang. 'cause that's likely to get us deported being a member of a gang. I don't have any tattoos, but that, you know, look, wait, here's a mass man right at the door.

No, let's, There's some people outside. All right, Mitch, you're getting to started off on a Friday. I said it's been a tough week.

I wanted to ease into it. Turn it up and you're turning it up. Okay, there we go.

Uh, moving on from Mitch. He's got his passport with him. May or may not help him.

He is our Chief Content officer, Mike home from Dublin and Ireland. Mike Ard, I guess they let you back in how Mike? They Did.

And it, it was very kind to them. And I'm very thankful, even though I am a US citizen and is my right to be here. So it's kind of weird that we're all questioning whether Or not, right.

So we don't have rights. What are you kidding? Who said anything about rights?

Uh, anyway, all kidding aside, Friday guys, we're going to kick it off. You know, the cybersecurity world was in a bit of a tizzy. Couple days ago.

The, uh, president of Mitre put out a letter talking about the imminent demise, perhaps of the CVE Mike. What do we got here? So, to your point, uh, apparently the US government took a long time to renew this contract under which minor has been managing this program forever.

And people have a lot of faith and trust in both Mitre and have trusted the US to kind of run this program. Um, as a result, as far as I can tell, um, a lot of people are now talking about, well, this maybe should not be a US led project, because they're saying that the situation here is a little too unstable. People don't wanna have a bunch of, um, political decisions kind of driving some things.

And so there's a, there is a conversation about moving this whole program or replacing it all together with something that is not CBE driven, simply because CBEs themselves are kind of difficult to track. There's tons of 'em, and, but they're not all equally severe and people are complaining about the way the whole thing works. Anyway.

Mitch, what's your take on this? 'cause CVEs are kind of the bane of application development existence. Well, it's the, it may be the bane of software development, but it's also the kind of glue or the, the oil that runs security because that's how we notify people about, uh, new vulnerabilities and the severity of them.

And it's, it's, it's kind of the gold standard. It really is the gold standard of reference of is this an issue? How serious is it?

Um, what are some of the remedies that we can, uh, take our, or where the attack vectors, et cetera. I think it just shocked everybody because I didn't know that that contract hadn't been renewed. You know, MITRE has a, a number of contracts with the government.

They've been around since the 1950s actually. So they're, they're a well trusted up to this point brand, but it does show, you know, the, the winds blow and change a different direction. Hmm.

What do you do now? The database is actually run by nist. So the database still would be there.

You just know new CVEs would've been issued, but there was a diving catch in the end zone. I guess we'll talk about that. Uh, to get it funded again.

Keep it going, I think for about 11 months while they figure out a different funding source. I got some thoughts on this one and some factual foundations here. So first of all, they're doing more than talking about, they're not talking about replacing CVEs because as Mitchell says, CVEs are not just to the app, the AppSec world, but even to the larger cybersecurity world.

That's how we do every scanner, every vulnerability management tool uses the CVE system. So they're not talking about replacing the CVE, we're talking about replacing who pays for and maintains the CVE. Let's take it outta the hands of the US government.

We can't trust them. And that's a disgusting comment on the state of our country. But unfortunately, it's the same thing you're hearing throughout the world.

We are no longer a stable partner. Canada says it, Japan says it, Europe says it. We're not, we're not stable.

We, we are chaos and people don't, we're, you know, they don't want to deal with that. So they founded something called the CVE Foundation and it's gonna be a not-for-profit foundation that if this ever happens again, we will tell the US government thanks, but no thanks. We got it.

Right. And that may the best thing that happens here. Number two, the relationship between the CVE and the national vulnerability database.

Think of the CVE as u upstream from that database. Now the CVE has been run by Mitre for as long as Mitch and I are in security, right? We have a lot of friends that minor Rob the Ruiz to always work with minor.

Um, and let's think about for those who you, who are not security people who don't know how this works, whether you are a researcher and Catman Dew or or Santa Clara or anywhere in between and you find a vulnerability you could submit to the CVE and if it's accepted, it's assigned a number, right? A registration in that CVE database and with it all the information, right? How, how do you detect it, how do you patch it?

Blah, blah, blah, blah. You need one central repository for all of this. Now, some big research teams like Microsoft, they're given a range of CVE numbers 'cause they find not many vulnerabilities unfortunately.

And so it's easier for them to get a, a number assigned to a partic particular vulnerability. That information though, once the CVE is assigned and all the data, you know, background information is collected, then makes its way into the national vulnerability database, which is Mitchell said is maintained by nist. Now, if you speak to security people, they will tell you NIST hasn't been on top of their game, hasn't been for a couple years because of budget cuts and priorities.

The, the lag time between coming from A CVE making its way into that national vulnerability database has stretched and stretched and stretched to the point that people are really frustrated by it. And again, questioning whether is this the right, the right caretaker for this thing? Is the government the right caretaker for this thing?

And so from the security professional's perspective, we already knew that the n you know, national, the NVDB was, was tottering on collapse it so far down and now we're gonna cut off funding for, for the CVE base. This is, this is double whammy, you know, worse case scenario, right? This is perfect storm kind of stuff.

Now, we spoke about it yesterday before the gang, or maybe the day before with Kimberly and, and some of our other gang members. And they, you know, they were saying, well, NIST don't fund it. No, NIST doesn't fund CVE in this case.

Csa, CSA came through. Now CSA as in Chris Krebs who's being investigated because he said the, the, the election wasn't stolen. As in who's the last lady who just left?

She was head of CSA under Biden, Mitch Maryann, whoever. I mean, SIS has done an amazing job of making the government relevant in cybersecurity and they stepped in here. But make no mistake, they only funded this for 11 months.

Yes. Yeah. You know, I'm glad you mentioned it, Alan.

'cause I have this dreaded sense of deja vu with this. I think Wired put it well in the headline they said, stupid and dangerous because we're not out of the woods. This last minute funding is just for several more Months.

It's gonna be like raising the national debt. You want me to fund CSA or, or CVE, I need a, a comparable cut somewhere else. Who the hell, once you make this a political football, It's dangerous, right?

It's like, like no, they're kicking the can down the road. It's like the determining the fate of TikTok. They just keep extending it.

And I think we're gonna have a crisis every year. I hope I'm wrong, but this, there's is already news that CI is gonna be facing significant reductions across. Most of its including the contractors already started.

Yep. And this, this more cost cutting or reckless cost cutting. Well, Well the fact is, MITRE laid people off because of this and now has to go back hiring them.

You know, our friend Chase Bannon, who's on the gang frequently, she works at Mitre. I'm not saying she told me anything, but it's been chaos over there. Chaos.

So they, they've, they've, they've, they've been canceling. So several contracts have already been terminated within the agency. Yes.

Or left to lapse. Yes. So now we've got this, you get rid of people, then you realize, oh my god, we need them.

Um, this is just, I mean, it sounds, sounds Familiar. Well this is this, but this is the Doge way, you know, they fire and then they aim it's best wards and that's the way our government is being set up to work. But, so the bottom line here is, as much as it pains me to say, let's take CVE away from the US government, we don't have enough adults in that room to run this thing, go with this CVE foundation, put adults in, it's too important to mess around with.

That was what struck me. And just the CVE system may not make headlines. It's not a, a sexy thing from a marketing perspective, but it's such an important pillar of modern cybersecurity.

And so I thought sort of resource that countries and security analysts around the world rely on be tied to a single government sponsor. Question mark, question mark, question mark. That was the thing that really popped out at me is that's a central theme here that needs to be addressed.

And to that point, Lisa, you know, I think we're in the realm of potentially anything that the US proposes. We'll set this up and we'll run it. We will do whatever, whether it's six or 12 or, you know, 24 months from now, I think the world's reaction is gonna question that.

Maybe we don't want you to do that. Let's start it. We're not trustworthy, but this precedent here, or whatever, there's precedent here.

Let me, let me explain something to you guys. When I first got involved in the internet commercial, you know, internet when it became viable, 96, something like that, 95, the entire DNS system and and domain name system was run by the US government. It was, it was a US government entity that assigned you your IP address and, and, and kept the domain registry.

Right? Then they formed a company called Network Solutions. com days net solutions.

They eventually got bought by, um, with a, the company that had digital certificates and stuff. Spiro, something was their CEO. Anyway, eventually the world decided that the domain registry needed to be global and it needed to have its own independence from any government entity.

And, and what we have today, I can, if you're familiar right? You've heard of I-C-A-N-N, I can, um, they, you know, they run the domains, uh, and they run dn, the DNS lookups and all these things. So this is not without precedent to yank it from the government and set it up, you know, in a not-for-profit type of worldwide foundational Yeah.

The DODI think did the original domain well, right? Well dock before it went to Yeah, exactly. Dark that it went to network solutions.

Yeah. But, But let's be honest here, there are a lot of people who have lost faith in CVEs and they complain about the severity rankings and then, and no, That's CVSS Mike. That's CVSS, not CVE.

Well, no, they're also complaining about They do, But you know what, there's always gonna be complaining. Lemme Finish. The basic complaint is, is that maybe these guys don't have enough funding to actually review these things and they're overran these things and creating more havoc for people.

And this is, and you'll hear open source maintainers, I mean, quite literally, b***h and moan about CVEs that they're like, none of that stuff is really, uh, executable in the first place because too many cybersecurity researchers are looking for, you know, marks on a belt to find a vulnerability. And it's like, you know, a lot of those vulnerabilities in those CVEs are not nearly as severe as they make 'em out to be. That's a fact.

Yeah. We've been hearing that s**t forever. They're not nearly severe as they make 'em out to be until someone breaks in using it.

Can I ask a question about, I don't mean, I don't mean to be alarmist, but if there was a sudden interruption in services, is there, what are the likelihood of, of, uh, this turning bubbling up into a national security problem very quickly? Exactly. That was another call I had.

Do you realize, wait a second. Do you realize that every agency that this doge thing, it goes into when they're done, they're leaving the back door open, the windows open and the lights on. You wanna talk about a national, I I read an article on this very subject this morning that the, the MO here is Doge goes in, they do what they gotta do to plunder the data that they want, fire the people that are there, and then they leave everything wide open.

And lo and behold, if you go look at a DNS look up of site of access to these agencies immediately after Doge leaves, where do you think those ips are coming from? China, Russia, North Korea, Iran. Some think that this is just a plot, a conspiracy theory.

There's a conspiracy theory that this is a plot by Trump and to open things up to China. Our security from a national level is, is flashing red, it's flashing red CVS tip of it. It's flashing red.

Most of these agencies, they're, they're watchdogs. Their security, their, their, and most security, by the way, comes from consultants and the, you know, the Accentures and so forth of the world, sa I Cs and all of them, they're gone. This thing is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an, it's a catastrophe way.

It's not waiting to happen. It's happening. It's disappointing.

It's really disappointing, Alan, because this, of all the areas of government security, cybersecurity, cybersecurity is one where there's been a, a real conscious effort over the last 15 years to get the pri private public relationship going, sharing information, you know, um, sharing threats, uh, and, and investigating things and, and, you know, CVEs are one example, but there's a lot of other things. And, and that's all getting ripped up and what's gonna replace it. Uh, it, there isn't something to replace it other than maybe going private.

But then you've gotta rebuild all those relationships under some private thing. And it doesn't involve government people. If there are government people for involved in security, Oh, it's okay.

And the industry will police itself and everything will be just fine. What are you, I mean, I mean, but the, you know, this is why I said, guys, I, Saturday, Friday night can't come fast enough for me this week. It's, it's scary times, scary times.

Anyway, let's take a break here on Textron Gang. Mike, what do you got that's like, feel good for today for us? I think anything good I do.

The next one up is a little bit on the feel good side, So you don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. You're watching Text and Gang Discover Textron Group, the epicenter of tech innovation.

We are your go-to for reaching IT leaders and practitioners worldwide. Our secret impactful content that sparks awareness, engagement, and top quality leads with us. You'll access editorial websites, streaming videos, virtual events, custom content analyst research, and more.

Join our satisfied clients. Let's revolutionize your tech journey. Contact us today and tell your story to the world in the most powerful way with Textron Group.

All right, folks, we're back with something. Well, hopefully lighter, but as always, everything to do with AI has a double edged sword to it. But Amazon is AWS specifically has a thing called Amazon Queue Developer, a set of agents that will let you, uh, or help you write code, review the code, test the code, et cetera.

And now they're making that available in many more languages around the world. And one of the attributes of that is that it will allow developers who speak different languages to understand, um, the intent of a comment better because the AI will convert a comment made in French, into English or English and Arabic, or in Spanish or whatever it may be. And we could have, um, global teams of developers working more collaboratively together.

At least that's the idea. Um, I think this is, uh, a positive thing for mankind, but anything to do with globalization these days is also fraught with controversy because, well, folks are saying, well, that will just facilitate more jobs moving to a different country from another country. The politics of that have always been there.

But Mitch, what's your take on what's going on here? Do you think this is gonna help development or people just kind of stay in their, in their international lanes as it were? I I mean, I think it's mostly good because you're, you're opening up more accessibility right, to these tools so you can, you know, talk in Arabic or whatever you're speaking language is.

I think they added like Arabic and French and German number of others. Um, so it makes it accessible to many more people. Um, it makes prompt sharing a little challenging.

If somebody's sending me an Arabic prompt and I can't read it, don't know what it says, I guess maybe I could get Google Translate to translate it. Hopefully it does it accurately. Um, but it, it does bring up the, you know, the semantics of each language are different, but that's what the, these AI models generative AI does well.

So I, I think it's a good thing overall. Um, it, it, it does you English being kind of the universal tech language that things are based on, we've really enjoyed that maybe too much, uh, as the thing to fall back on. And this may mean that it's shifting.

Yes, the young, young man in the back there raising his hand, I, I've got a real problem here. Did it didn't, our glorious leader just signed an executive order making English our official language. We're gonna start taking things out of English.

What's next? DEI equal rights for gays. There's un-American, and I think we should have the FTC pull Amazon's card.

It's, it's, it's, it's clearly Friday. You realize that today. Good.

So You saying you today is good Friday, right? You wanna Doge Amazon? Is that what You're saying?

Yeah, let's doge Amazon send Elon over there. Doge is now a verb, by the way, right? I mean, all, all kidding aside, this is a great thing.

Yeah, right? Let's bring the world together. The the whole world doesn't speak English.

Even those people who speak English as a second language, you know, when you go to Europe and you talk to people, you realize though they can do basic communications. There's a lot that gets lost in the translation, so to speak. And, um, it, it's a great thing.

Kudos to AWS So, Lisa, in my, in my mind, and, and this is more of a high-minded thought, but I think when people, even when they have different languages work together, it narrows their differences. So maybe do you think, you know, as we kinda move forward in the age of ai, you know, other cultures become less mysterious, they become less, uh, foreign and maybe, you know, we can have a a you know, we refer to Star Trek a lot here in this show, but are we moving in that direction? I think so.

I think I, I saw this as a really positive step that AWS is taking, you know, to enable developers worldwide to leverage gen AI technologies to not only be more productive, but to some of the points already made more collaborative, really helping to democratize software development. But to your point, maybe helping some cultures understand each other better, because this is gonna allow developers across the world to share ideas more, more easily. So it's gonna be an interesting, um, side benefit.

I think, Mike, to your point about cultures maybe not being erased, but maybe, maybe people become more open to embracing different cultures and understanding cultural differences for the greater good of software democratization and making the world of better place. And then ensuring we can, you know, transact on Amazon or whatever we want in a, in a real time personalized, contextually relevant way. I think this could be very foundational.

Maybe not a, maybe not a primary message that came out here, but I think you bring up a really good point that it, it absolutely, uh, could be moving in that direction. I just installed my universal translator. I have to be honest, I didn't understand a word you said.

Can you, you need Lieutenant Noura to help you with that. Oh, wow. But, uh, so John, as you think about some of this, um, you know, our companies in the way they operate gonna be more global than they have been.

And I would argue we're talking about globalization forever, but I, when you look at it, it's really internationalization. All these companies have units that operate in different countries, but they're isolated from each other, really. Are we gonna get the real globalization?

Yeah. Yeah. We were mind melding on this one.

Um, yeah, you know, I'm a, I'm a fan of AWS because in a sense what they're doing is, uh, to, to steal a little bit from Lisa. It's more collaborative. It's across countries.

You know, we, we keep hearing all these generative ai, genetic ai, um, announcements, and they all seem to be very, be very Anglo focused. And what AWS is thinking is, let's peel back the layers. Let's look at other markets.

Let's look at, uh, cross-pollinization. Let's expand, let's expand the market in the playing field. And I think other companies are gonna follow in their steps.

I, one of the questions I wanted to ask, um, you, Mike, 'cause you wrote, you wrote the story was if this is something that's unique to AWS or other companies doing it, because I'm not, I'm not aware of it. Um, but I think it's, Yeah, I think it's gonna be a capability and just about everybody has, and that's gonna be the interesting part about it, because despite what governments might be saying, I think people will naturally kind of gravitate towards each other and find ways to work together. And, um, we may get a movement where people just say, you know, I don't really care what the government's saying about XY there's, there's, you know, four people in another country I like working with.

And here we go. Exactly. You know, given the footprint of these companies too, and in a sense, what's at what's at stake?

And I'm not gonna go down the tariff, we'll go down the tariff lane in the next segment, but, um, this, this is an, uh, a major market opportunity. And AWS if there's one, one thing they do really well, and Lisa can attest to this, is just like thinking bigger and thinking wider. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes. And this is a great example of that.

I vote, we just go back to Latin. I think that would for, It used to be French, right? That was the international language was before English, but Yes, it was.

All right. I, you know, I'll stand by my magar on this. We're, we're gonna take a break.

Let's come back and talk about, uh, oh. A MD is now online to build chips here with TSMC. com is the leading resource for news analysis and education on challenges facing the cybersecurity industry.

com covers all aspects of cybersecurity, including data security, DevSecOps, cloud security, application security, network security, security threats, and more. com has the largest selection of security content featuring breaking news, blog posts, podcasts, and more. com to learn more.

com. Home of security bloggers network. Hey folks, we're back, and this is more one of those continuing stories, but a MD is now saying that they're gonna manufacture chips in the US with a little help from their friends in Taiwan.

Um, um, my take on this is, it seems like everybody's just kinda like standing up and saying this, but I get a little cynical about the whole thing because I'm like, well, by the time you build a fab, you know, and there'll be another president. So John, what's your sense of what's real here and what's not real? So we, yeah, we did talk about this yesterday and we talked about Nvidia as a partner of TSMC, and we had the same misgivings or the same concerns, you know, how long it takes to build a hab lab, um, get everything online, and by the time that happens, it's years, years down the line.

And I, I, I will bring up Foxconn from the first administration of, of Trump, and it's, it's something that's an on, it's gonna be an ongoing issue, but in a sense, a MD is trying to protect itself in terms of the supply chain, in terms of what might happen with the tariffs. I understand they actually claim that they had planned to do this before any talk of the tariffs that, that there was, of course, right? This is this, this was a, a press conference in type A with, with the CEO, uh, Sue, uh, Lisa Sue.

And it was their intention to, for us to believe that this was already in the works and that something will be produced with by the year 2026. But again, when we, when it comes to these types of stories, these numbers, to me, in terms of the amount of money that's gonna be spent, the timeline, the particular products, it's all kind of pie in the sky. I'm not gonna say it's made up, but it seems fabricated to me, so to speak.

Bad pun. I know. But these, these are things that, that continue to, to, to make me just wonder what they're trying to accomplish.

I know what they're trying to accomplish is protect themselves. I think they're trying to mollify people at the same time. I know, Alan, you wanted, I know you're chomping at the bit, so you Go ahead.

No, I know. Look, we discussed this yesterday. These two, the, these new chips they're talking about are two nanometer technology chips by, uh, SMCs own admission.

Their two nanometer plant in Phoenix won't come online till at least, at least 2028. And then you gotta find people who could work there or at least program the robots that'll work there. And so what are you really talking?

It is all, it is nonsense, right? This is, You know what the, so years ago, Intel asked, Intel gave me the opportunity to go to one of their fab labs before it was opened, and it was in, uh, it was in the Phoenix area. And they, on this tour just looking around, just looking at the amount of money and equipment and the amount of intricacy of what was going on there.

It's a years long process. So whenever I hear these stories about we're gonna bring manufacturing back, no matter how simple or how complicated it is, I just, I, I just, I cannot, I cannot stop laughing at this, the absurdity of these timelines that we, they keep giving us It, it is absurd. But let me, let me say something though.

TSMC, Taiwan semiconductor, right? You are assuming there will be a Taiwan, Right? Exactly.

When China decides they're taking it back, and let's face it, we're not going to war over it in this administration and they just tell TSMC, you no longer are gonna work with them. You have a lot of empty office space over there. Mm-hmm.

So to that point, is this a Taiwan exit strategy and is it viable? Will the Chinese wait for us to go build these fabs? Or will they just decide that they'll take Taiwan?

Well, they're nice guys. They wanna see us succeed. Why wouldn't they wait, come on Until we start building it.

Well, it's Friday, but Mitch, what's the saying? I was born at night, but not last night. What, how does that go?

It's not last night. That's exactly Right. But, but, but the Chinese are known for taking their time and they have the long view, and maybe they're gonna say, look, the, the manufacturing plants themselves aren't worth all that much and they just want the island back.

'cause to that, it's a national issue. You all are just making a big, big ass deal out of this thing and way overblowing it. I think if we just put this under the infrastructure week program, that'll make sure that it, I was surprised by, sorry, I was surprised by the aggressiveness of the timeline because it doesn't make, and that they would put that message out.

Um, I guess they felt it looks better to say the chips scheduled to rolled out in 2026 out of Arizona, but if that plant isn't even gonna be ready, I just, I'm sure why the methods, There are other chips. There are other, so one plant that makes the four or five nanometer chips, which are kind of older chips, I believe just became operational this month. Okay.

Because they're talking about the epic processors here, March 5th, Saying they're gonna roll out in 26, the two, they clearly, and we, we discussed this in the last one with Nvidia, the two nanometer won't be online till 2028 Early. Got it. Okay.

Of course, you know, yesterday, was it in, oh, yesterday I, I'll I will reference the, the stock market and, and what happened to Nvidia. So it all, it all can just ex go puff in the sky when we have other, you know, extenuating circumstances or announcements made around tariffs, which happens every conceivably every few hours. It's at this point.

So all this maneuvering can just be blown outta the water by some sort of random event. I mean, this, this is, this is crazy. If I was a tech company right now, I'd be pulling my hair out trying to, trying to figure out what, what we, what the hell are we gonna do the next year or two with all this chaos around, Not just tech company.

If you're any company, I'm sorry, go ahead Mitch. No, no. John referenced, um, Foxconn and all of these announcements, not just chips, but I think a lot of the announcements, they are pr they're, they are kind of building favoritism and yes, we're following through with what the administration wants, where they ever really happened.

You know, what, what happened to the, um, the AI data centers that we were gonna build all over the, the biggest infrastructure? That's kind of, we don't talk about that now. We talk about the next announcement.

So it's, it's just political evidence, quote unquote, meaning it's just hot air until something really happens to say we're doing what we said we would do. I also wonder the following, I think it will happen not because of USA manufacturing, but more just as a national security issue and people don't want our chips made somewhere else when and, and be held hostage by that. And I can wrap my head around that, but I'm also looking at these timelines and I'm like going, I wonder if the pace of innovation's gonna be a lot faster than they think and these two nanometer chips might be superseded by the next thing long before that factory comes online.

So, well, If they won't trust us to run CVEs, are they gonna trust what's made in the us? That's my question. Well, no, because to make an iPhone, you just need a lot of people with little screwdrivers.

Yeah. I'm curious, why would I, if I can't trust CBEs from the US government, why would I trust a government sponsored chip manufacturer? You located in the us they may be gone tomorrow or you know, we're only supplying, And by the way, we, we've demonstrated no expertise in a very long time in, in this kind of manufacture.

You know, again, I mentioned it yesterday. I read an article and it listened to a podcast with Tom Friedman, Thomas Friedman from the Times who spoke about that we need to do to China. What China did to us, which was 25 or more years ago, they looked at what the US does well and what the US didn't do well and what the US didn't do.

Well, China put a all balls to the wall effort to do well, to do fantastic what we don't do well. So they also got really good at copying things, right? Yeah.

But, but they saw what we don't do well and they started doing it well knowing that because we don't do it well, it would become, we would be dependent on that. Well, we need, we need a comparable program here and it may take 10, 20 years for us to develop that kind of expertise. And the problem is our system is set up is such that we don't have 10 year, 20 year outlooks.

We, we live quarter to quarter. We, we can't do it. We, yeah, we can't do it based on the four year terms.

You know, the weird thing too is with the, the Chinese, they think long-term and right now I think what g meant, what they're leaders of the biggest tech companies and they're talking about, uh, automation throughout manufacturing because they have a huge shortage of many of people who will work or willing to work in manufacturing. Meanwhile, on the flip side, we've got an administration that's convinced everybody wants to work on a manufacturing line, which is pure, pure and inanity. Um, who would rather, I mean this, this whole argument goes back to the first administration when Khen was the treasury secretary.

He would try to make the argument that who wants to work in manufacturing when they work in an air conditioned office that's much safer and pays better. So we're I in a sense we just never seen, Well, not to mention that today's factories don't have a lot of assembly line jobs, you know, look at Tesla, so Well, we could talk till we're blue in the face. The Chinese spokesman saying, I need we Here for 5,000 years.

We're gonna be here for 5,000 more. Yeah. That was their attitude.

Mike, could we go to a pub for Friday night? We can, but I, but, but I think it's good Friday though. So we're supposed to have fish today.

That's true. It's good. All right.

So we can order fish and chips. There you go. Fish and chips in a pub.

I could be in behind that. Alright, Hey, let's call on a wrap on this version of Text and Gang, for those of you who are celebrating Good Friday, uh, and Easter this Sunday, happy, happy holidays. Passover is still going on.

So happy holidays and Passover to you as well as they say. And, um, God willing, if some mass men don't cart us all away, we'll be back on Monday to continue this discussion about what's going on in your world. But stay tuned for the rest of techstrong tv.

Uh, we've got a full lineup as usual, but for now, this is Alan Shimmel and we're out.