IT Spending Tops $4 Trillion, AI Growth and Cybersecurity Pressure | TSG Ep. 984

Hey, anybody got about $4 trillion sitting around, we could use, you're watching Textron Gang. Hey everyone, happy Thursday. It's time for Textron Gang.

Man, I love doing this show. Um, glad you can join us. We've got a lot to talk about, including an IT market set to go over $4 trillion.

Um, well, in this year alone, which is a record, we'll talk more about it. We got other good stuff, but we got some really good people to talk about this stuff with. Let me introduce you, let have our friend, guy Courier our hello.

Good To be here. Good to see you guy. And we have, she's not behind.

She's not usually on, she's not in her brick wall today. She's traveling. But our cyber Snooper, Terry Robinson, uh, Mitch Ashley, and of course, the man from Silicon Valley, ch Swartz Gang.

Welcome. Thanks for coming in today. Coming on today, of course, you're not here in our offices in Boca Raton.

Guy was in the vicinity. Our, our guy, snooper sniffer lit up that he was in the vicinity but not, wasn't able to make it in, um, next time. So gang, you know, IDCs out with a report that for 2025, not next year projection this year, actual spend, the IT market is set to hit about four and a quarter trillion.

com era. So maybe there's something to that. John, why don't you kick us off on this?

What do, what do you think? Yeah, that's, I'm glad you mentioned that because I also thought that jumped out to be 1996 comparison. So there's like this parallel about where we are in the stage of AI, perhaps.

25 trillion. And then there's a separate number that takes into account, uh, it spending plus telecommunications and business services, which is IIDC refers to as ICT, which we'll approach 7 trillion this year. Um, again, it's worldwide spending.

It's largely driven by ai. One thing that's interesting that shows the growth from IVCs point of view is that they have, um, updated this seven straight quarters, or excuse me, seven straight months. They've been, they've been revising their numbers, their projections, which shows an escalation in spending according to them.

Um, now they did note that the pace of growth is gonna slow to 10% in 2026, but that's still one of the strongest years since the 1990s. And they did acknowledge, um, this expected memory component shortage, which could drive up PC prices. They also, men mentioned, uh, potential headwinds in the economy, but again, it's pretty impressive number.

Um, I think earlier in, in the green room, we were discussing this a a bit and, and perhaps I think Mitch is gonna point out that this number might be underestimating the actual growth. One other thing I'm gonna mention before I pass it on to Mitch is that, uh, yesterday I talked with John Chambers, who was the CEO of Cisco for about 20 years. And I asked him about the report and this idea of this AI supercycle, and he says he actually thinks it's going, things are going to accelerate in 2026.

And he pointed out a couple of things, including potential IPOs, uh, open ai, anthropic, SpaceX, et cetera, and more, uh, mergers and acquisitions since they're being rubber stamped right now. So, uh, pretty heady times right now, but again, it's a volatile market and, um, perhaps as, as Mitch will probably point out, this number might be actually low. Yeah, it, uh, you know, these numbers are, are both, you know, analyst projections as well as kinda analysis current market.

It all depends on how you define what worldwide it. So that may be some of the difference. 1 trillion.

5 something in that, in that. And I think folks are kinda landing around that 10% growth number next year, which, you know, per chambers, maybe it is higher than that. I think it kind of more interesting is when you dig down into, okay, so what, what, that's the spend.

What are we spending on? What are the drivers of that growth? And of course, AI comes to the top of the list, not surprisingly, but infrastructure, uh, in cloud and also modernization is second, uh, in the growth drivers in our analysis, followed by cybersecurity.

Now, sometimes cyber ends up number one on the budgeting as well, but we're looking at what are your top, top investment priorities for 25 and 26. So followed, you'll like this Alan product, uh, platform engineering and developer productivity, data management, enterprise, uh, matter modernization for applications. Things that we're we, you know, that we know well about what we're doing.

They're not surprised by any of those. There's no no new thing on the list kind of jumping up like AI did to me though, the question is, is AI Snow White and is everything else the seven Dwarfs? Um, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know cybersecurity is right up there with AI in terms of investment.

Ah, not talking about the data center build, but, you know. Yeah. But so is the data center built in that number, Mitch?

Uh, I believe it is. Believe. And does that go under AI or No, like these AI factories?

That's infrastructure. They, that's infrastructure. So that's, I I bet you if you, because it's AI that's spurring that infrastructure built out.

Yeah. I'll check, just I'll check real quick where if is okay, while we're talking, I'll, I'll look at it and let you know. Yeah.

Well, I, I think, I think none of these, you know, exist in isolation, obviously. Um, but even less than before, uh, even pre ai, you know, an infrastructure build, um, or new applications or more cloud or more SaaS or all these kind of trends that we've seen, uh, I think those lead to more, uh, potential, more, more focus on security as well. Right?

Um, so with ai, I mean, how much of the cloud growth sp uh, spending growth is, uh, really AI related in one form or another, whether it's data or hosting Applications? And that's my point. That's my guy.

I, I think AI is a component including insecurity for that matter. But, but when we're talking about security, as a long time security person, I'm so tired of this, right? For as long as I've been in security, we're always one of the top three priorities.

We're gonna put that budget in its place. And then all you hear from CISOs is, I don't have enough money to do what I gotta do. They don't want me to buy the shiny new trache.

We, we are strapped for resources. Let's get, let's take some money from the developers. They got a lot of budget.

You know, it's, it's the old, Are you talking out? Hold on. Are you talking about the, uh, aspirations versus reality gap?

Yeah, because our own research showed, um, the future of own research, uh, showed that, uh, uh, cybersecurity is a top driver of additional spend. Cybersecurity's always a top priority. Yeah.

So, so you're saying that, that when the reality comes around, it turns out there wasn't as much, or you saying I always say that, but where's the actual growth? Well, there is, there is the T-Rex syndrome where the arms are too short to reach their pockets. I bet that only happens at Morton Steakhouse.

Okay. Yeah. Well, only when I'm out with the analyst, Mitch.

But anyway, I'll write about you we're so used to someone else paying for their dinner. I just, I kind of feel like I, I just wanna, I just wanna provide one, one perspective here that, I mean, I've been doing this kind of market research for, you know, my whole career pretty much 20, 25 years. And, um, over and over again year after year, like you're saying, Alan, um, there is this strong desire among the CISO and, and security and IT community to invest more in security.

And there was always, uh, um, the, from the same folks saying they wanted to spend more reporting, that the business units and the, and the executive teams and the board don't really understand the need. It's a, the, the can that keeps getting kicked, however, however, among these boards. So here's my point, here's my point among these boards and executives.

Now, I think there actually is more awareness of security issues because of AI among other things. And there's more fear, and there may be more support for growing security budgets. Finally, look, we Could do a whole session on this, but let me, let me, let me just hit some of the big things here.

Num, number one, there is the perception that the security people of the boys who cried wolf, right? They're always talking about impending doom and catastrophe. It doesn't happen.

And then the money they get get squandered on the shiniest newest gadget that turns out to be some really nice paperweight shelfware, and it is not really used. Then next year, they're looking for the next shiniest newest gadget, number two. Uh, number three, you know, there's the old FUD argument that they go to the board and say, how do you look in stripes?

'cause if you don't do this, you're going to jail. And, and you know, they extort money that way. Um, but, but then there's also a, a different dynamic here, which is talk business to me.

Don't tell me how many intrusions or vulnerabilities or the severity of my CVEs or how how AI is, is resulting in X amount more phishing attacks and spear phishing. I wanna know what's my risk, what's my exposure? How much can I lower my risk by spending this amount of money?

And that's a very difficult equation even for a ciso, the best of the CISOs to, to, to formulate. I think that's right. And I've been, um, speaking a lot lately with CISOs, you know, about, uh, this and, and sort of the issues with the board and being able to talk.

I have one tell me just this week, you know, like you can't go in there and talk bits and bites. You can't go in there and talk, you know, uh, attack vectors and all of this. You have to really speak to them where you know where it counts.

Um, and one of the interviews I did recently with, uh, somebody who's a CFO, she argued that the CFOs and, um, general counsels and CISOs need to work together and present some sort of, you know, united front and really be able to talk about risk and be able to talk about the legal, you know, liability and danger. And that maybe, you know, that's the way to get the boards, you know, in, in invested. And Yeah, to your point, Jerry, to your point, you know, one of the, one of the recommendations I had from somewhere along the way was don't go do your own financial analysis.

Go and list the, the CFO or someone from finance, not them do it, put it in the same exact format, same way we do everything else that way. The ROI, the capitalization, whatever you're talking about, it's not, you know, 'cause 'cause executives love to find errors in your, in your spreadsheets and your numbers and your charts. Right?

Right. It's kind of a low game. Yeah.

Seems like that's played. But, you know, use those people that they, they wanna help you. It's a great way to, uh, get some buy-in along the way too.

And A lot of those people are becoming more well-versed, I think, in, in cyber and in, you know, tech. But like the CFO that I talked to had a, you know, a good background in working for tech and cyber companies and, you know, sort of, it was an area of interest for her as well. And, um, I think you're finding more people like that.

I think the other issue is too, like, if you don't have an incident, because okay, you've spent a lot of money, you've gone to your board, you've gotten money, you, you know, you spend on, you know, uh, your cyber solutions or whatever, and then you don't have an incident, whether it's because of the purchases you made or just sheer luck, you know, then they're less likely to want to give you more. 'cause they're like, oh, well, nothing's happening, you know? Um, we're fine.

That's the Problem in security when nothing happens. You did, your job happens. Yeah.

But, you know, you know, one thing that So much, there's a lot more in here than security. I'm sorry, John, go ahead. Yeah, I was gonna say, the one thing that I always have to give pause to is when they put these, when these reports are put together, and I, I was thinking about data Quest back in the day, or even Garner to a lesser extent, the companies that they are covering are sometimes clients and they are providing some of the information.

And I'm thinking in terms of infra infrastructure spends, like are they, are they, are some of these numbers being baked in from some of the big tech companies who have made these inordinate promises to spend tens or hundreds of billions of Dollars? I assumed, no, this is money that was spent. This is not projections balances.

Well, I can tell you what's in our numbers and, and imagine folks all something similar. I did. I went to the future of Intelligence platform, looked it up.

Um, it is, it does not include building shell, hvac, the land, all this, all the kind of physical plant stuff, but it does include power infrastructure, UPS oftentimes. It doesn't always have to, but onsite software, any, any hardware, direct hardware, cooling. So it doesn't include the construction then, Mitch, is what you're saying?

No, yeah, exactly. That's interesting. So that's at least how our numbers work.

So I imagine folks have some variation of that. But let, let me, let me make an analogy here though, John, you hit on it earlier, right? This was the strongest growth since 1996, which is very funny.

1996, I launched Tristar Web Creations, my first tech real tech company, not a hobby. And uh, it was the beginning, Netscape, I believe that's the year Netscape came out. It is.

Yep, it is. And if you think about it, it took until 2000 for that bubble to run its course. Um, And Nets and Netscape was roadkill within a few years.

Yeah, well, soon as Internet Explorer, soon as it got to Microsoft Sites, right? But I mean, it was a, it was a, it's, it's, it's eerie though to me, like this timeline. It's, um, but this is a, an accelerated timeline, I think, right?

Yeah. Time is crunched now. I don't think we're gonna see four years, but we're liable.

You know, to back to John Chambers, uh, prediction 2026 is not gonna be a year if this thing bursts, but maybe 20, 27 Just in time Or Maybe 25. There's still a few weeks left. Always the optimist.

I Don't Such a, Well, well, I'm, no, but I'm mindful of how everything in this particular, uh, tidal wave, um, that was the internet tidal wave, uh, or wave. But this particular AI tidal wave, everything seems accelerated. Everything seems to go faster.

So it be an, it's Accelerated guide, it's also accelerated because of not just ai, but the vendors coming out with AI capabilities, like in the development space, all the things we hear from Google, Microsoft, AWS so, you know, developer tools for creating platform, for creating platform for operating agents. There's a lot of product coming out. And that, of course gives people, you know, the shiny objects you're talking about, Alan, not just in security, but in AI too.

So, you know, the, a harness, Mitch, you may know this, I'm not sure if the rest of the panel knows Harness announced this morning, uh, a huge $240 million round on a five and a half billion dollar valuation. And I, I thought it was very interesting. I spoke with GTI Banza, the, uh, CEO founder of Harness, former founder of AppDynamics.

And, um, he said, you know, harness is all in on ai. They actually rolled out a, a platform harness ai, and it, and his point is he's bringing AI to everything after the code. So in other words, there are already people helping the developers use AI and AI generating code.

But AI is not just for generating code. AI is going to empower and empower the entire CD and observability, uh, chain as well. So this is the conversation we were having the other day.

I think it was maybe yesterday of, are we gonna see, is security finally showing up earlier in the lifecycle? And some of it is during code, right? Things like guardrails and, and behavioral controls that might be agents.

But hearts has got a great story around AI and deploying and operating, especially around observability and automation. They've got a lot of, uh, a lot of great things that have already come out. No, no, but I I, I love that slogan, right?

It's AI for everything after the code. Yeah. It's really clear where they're, where they're playing.

Great testing everything else. Guys, we're overtime on this one. I gotta take a break here.

We'll, uh, gonna come back and we, we we're gonna talk more ai, but you know, the EU iss putting the brakes on, maybe you're watching Textron Gang, You've earned it. The spotlight, the responsibility, the weight of teams, companies, and entire industries fall on your shoulders, lives depend on your decisions. Your home life included that work.

You are protected physically and digitally. Nothing gets through your team without a fight. But in a globally connected world, everyone sees you, including those who mean to cause you and your organization harm.

And now home your sanctuary attackers see an opportunity. Your digital front door is wide open. And what compromises your home can breach your boardroom.

Because the devil's greatest trick isn't targeting your workplace firewall. It's convincing you that your personal life isn't at risk. Black clerk, digital executive protection, defending the new attack surface your personal life.

We have a sense of, uh, dejavu going on with Google. Uh, the European Union regulators have launched an antitrust investigation, um, to determine if Google has abused its market dominance with AI services that exploit content creators and harm competitors. Uh, this sounds familiar.

It's because the EU has been at war with Google for years and find them billions of dollars. Uh, I, I'm gonna keep this short, but basically the European Commission is scrutinizing Google's use of web publishers content and YouTube videos for AI purposes. Uh, through two means, AI overviews, which generates, uh, automatic summaries atop of these search results in AI mode, which delivers chatbot style responses to queries.

It's gonna be interesting because this is an escalation of antagonisms between the commission and Google, which in turn could actually lead to some repercussions on the part of our government. But I'm, I'm gonna pitch it over to Mitch, um, to, to, to get his comments because there's a, there is a focus on Google and, and what it's been doing, but I also think there's also rumors and talk and reports of other investigations into things like WhatsApp AI policies in Europe. And there was a fine against X in, in Europe.

So, um, I'm just wondering if this is a fodder for more things to be discussed and be concerned about with ai. Um, I think we'll definitely have a lot more things to talk about with EU investigations. Uh, very, this is, uh, deja vu all over again.

Do you remember the search results being biased in favor of Google? Hmm? How did that happen?

Algorithms? Oh, we have those, you know, they're, they're innocent things. That doesn't happen.

I think that the same kind of thing is happening with AI summaries and AI search, uh, in the search results, uh, driving that. And, you know, there, there in some ways when you're using models that you developed, I mean, we've seen with Grok and what, what, um, x ai kind of results will, will produce about their founder and saying great things about him. So, so there is, I i bias built into these models too.

So it isn't always just the algorithm. It is also could be underlying bias built into the, uh, the generative AI models themselves. So I think we're gonna get a lot of scrutiny on the output, especially when they're an, they're a tightly integrated stack like Google is when they're model producer, as well as the infrastructure cloud and all this software stack above it.

I just wanna say that there, there may be less bias built into the models, Mitch, and much more built into the prompts. Prompts are a lot more, You have very good point there too. Yeah.

You can Certainly Bias it that way. Yeah. I mean, when, when, now when you type a search in, you know, um, any of these search engines, I mean, bing, DuckDuckGo, whoever it is, um, there's that AI box that pops up.

There's a prompt being added to your search, obviously. And, um, that's kind of where the danger is because, you know, any old ex executor who's it, who has access to that prompt can, you know, make a change and put it into production, you know, I mean, build It into the system prompt, build it into the system prop, and then everything will be Mm-hmm. Yeah.

9% of users aren't even aware that that's what's going on. And meanwhile, um, you know, model training or tuning to, um, provide, let's say to provide bias, um, as well as to reduce bias, that's a long, that's a expensive and long endeavor. Yep, I got it.

But much harder to fare it out if you do it. I got two totally. I'm a conspiracy theorist.

I'm, I know they're doing this, they've been doing this for years. I'm just kidding. So deja vu all over again.

That sounds like a yogi to me. No, I just said That You did say Yogi. Yes.

Okay. It's, it's a, let's, let's get more aism. You did give us an aism.

That's a yogi. I just said that. But, but that being said, that, that being said here, you know, it, it's so funny how life fates and, you know, the, the, the current of events, not current events, but the current of events play.

Just last week, everyone was touting Google, Google's in the catbird seat. They've got this vertically integrated stack for AI that no one, no one can compete with. AWS can talk about their agendas.

And Microsoft's a good second, but Google's in the catbird seat with this, with this integrated model. And now here we are a week later and the EU saying, not yet. Right?

Maybe not. Hold on here. And what does this mean?

I mean, I don't think they're gonna break up Google, right? They, they've been dancing this dance with Google now for years and years, and Google just seems to write the check and, and keep doing what it does. And they'll probably wind up doing that here.

But it just goes to show you how fluid, you know, the, the, the, the current events here are right from week to week, day to day, how things and fortunes change. You know, the, it's funny that you said that because that's exactly what John Chambers was talking about this yesterday. He was talking about the three companies that are best positioned in terms of ai.

And he mentioned that Google is one of them. And he said, you know, a year ago they were not even close. They were caught flatfooted by Microsoft and they were scrambling.

'cause now they're in the catbird seat, which, which again, it's, it, it just kind of sh it, it underscores how quickly things are moving in this, in this space. And you're on, you're on the outside looking in, you're the inside looking out. Um, and so maybe that got the eus attention.

The, but, but you know, Google always has their attention. Yeah. Are are they the Amer, I mean, is an American, you know, tech company, or have they gotten the most fines from The eu?

Yes. Is it, it's not even close. Right?

Yeah. They seem be in particular obsession with them. Yeah.

Yeah. They seem to be focused on them. It, it is what it is.

You know, I, I'll just say this to end my piece of it sticking with my friend Yogi. It ain't over till it's over. Is it ever over though?

I mean, All right, we're gonna take a break. Let's come back here and we're gonna talk a little bit about Ghost Payments. You're watching Textron Gang, Discover Textron Group, the epicenter of tech innovation.

We are your go-to for reaching IT leaders and practitioners worldwide. Our secret impactful content that sparks awareness, engagement, and top quality leads with us. You'll access editorial websites, streaming videos, virtual events, custom content analyst research, and more.

Join our satisfied clients. Let's revolutionize your tech journey. Contact us today and tell your story to the world in the most powerful way.

With Textron Group, The folks at the B, uh, BBB Better Business Bureau, um, sent out an alert, uh, recently on, um, ghost Tap scams. And, um, you know, there's been a per proliferation of being able to, you know, pay from things from your phone or tap your credit cards or whatever. And as you can imagine, the scammers are all over that.

I don't think it comes as any surprise to anybody. Um, but, um, these things are sensitive. Um, the technology that's used to communicate from device to device, uh, can be exploited.

And that's what these guys are doing. Some of the scams are straight up. Um, somebody might show up at your door saying that they're collecting, uh, money or selling candy bars for some charity.

Um, you, you know, you tap and they charge you more than they said. It's, it's, it's on the consumer at that point, I guess, to be vigilant and, uh, check the receipt, which a lot of people don't do. They just tap and go or, uh, you know, to check your bank accounts or whatever to make sure that you were charged with us.

But the, the, the kind of scarier thing, or the thing that's a little bit more difficult is when you get, when you tap and you don't know it, right? Um, especially like with credit cards in your pocket, um, it's probably this to, you know, uh, evidence that you should have some sort of Faraday contraption bag, you know, whatever, um, your credit cards can tap without you even knowing it. Which kind of brings me to what we were talking about in the Green room earlier.

I had this, uh, incident in, and so I'm glad this is on the agenda today. When I was, uh, visiting San Tr PE a couple of years ago, and I was buying something in a market, and they're lots of vendors, but they, you know, they're not these small booths. They're sort of, you know, uh, bigger spaces.

And, um, I, I was getting ready to pull out my credit card, or as I was pulling out my credit card to tap, uh, the, the vendor was standing, uh, probably, I don't know, six, seven, maybe more feet from me. And I was gonna walk over to her and tap and, uh, it, it tapped without me. Even, I, I barely had it outta my pocket.

And I was a great distance from her. And I actually jokingly said to her, you could just go out in the crowd and, you know, just tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, and get all these people that are walking by. They'd never know that you were charging them for, you know, whatever your goods and services.

Well, that is one of the things that the BBC, I mean, BBB is a warning against that these kind of proximity taps. And you just, you don't know that you've been a victim until you receive a bill. You know, I, Terry correct me if I'm wrong, but if, if it's a, if it's a credit card, ghost Tap, you're protected in the United States, at least by, um, this law from the seventies, whose name I forget, that, you know, against credit card fraud, that the credit card company itself is liable.

But if it's, uh, if it's an app Yeah, then you're not No protection. Yeah. com.

Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's right.

And I mean, you look at some of the things, uh, that went on with Zelle, you know, a couple years ago and the scams that were there, which were a little different than just like, say the ghost tapping thing, but that's when we became painfully aware, right? That, um, through those apps, you're not, uh, protected the same way you would be if you used your credit card. Now, the one thing though is the apps are typically, um, a little more protected when it comes to these kind of, um, of, uh, of events because your credit card, again, more sensitive, doesn't offer a lot of protection, um, outside of your wallet and, and actually in, in your wallet.

But, um, the, the apps in your phone have a little bit more protection to begin with. It's maybe less likely, um, that you're gonna get that walk by in a crowded, uh, uh, arena or festival or something and have somebody ghost tap you, You know, I, I know like the, they sell, like, so I have a wallet that has RFID shielding. Does that prevent this kind of ghost tap?

Well, that's one thing that I, I, you know, think some of the, the analysts that I talked to, um, recommended that people get that kind of, you know, wallet. I, I bought one recently for somebody in my family who has a hard time keeping track of their, their credit cards and what they've used them for. But yes, that's, um, that's something, um, I use, I have a little metal case.

I don't think it offers necessarily that much protection, but it makes me feel safer, um, somehow that, that you can't get exactly to my credit cards, say directly. But, um, yeah. And then they, they recommend that, you know, you, you be vigilant as a consumer, um, about, uh, you know, what's, you know, looking at your bank statements, your credit card statements to see, you know, if you've been charged for these things.

'cause people just don't look and people don't look at receipts, you know, to see Yeah. And they have auto payment and All that sort of thing. Yeah.

So they just, they don't think about it anymore. The same, you know, in the same, So I, I gotta tell you the truth, if I was starting a new company right now, and you can never tell, I may still have one more in me. I, I would create an AI agent that goes through your bank and credit card statements looking for subscriptions, duplicates, right.

Things that don't seem right. Right. I, I know, like, you know, the RAMP system, for instance, does a good job of matching mm-hmm.

Receipts to actual charges and all of that stuff. But I think we need that for consumers. That'll, and, and we already do have some that'll, like Apple will show you what subscriptions they have.

Right. And I think there's already an app that Rocket Money, rocket Money will do that too, Right? Yeah.

But we need something a little bit more, um, sophisticated, a little bit more autonomous, right? That every time you get a tap, it notes it, and then it's gonna track that going forward and everything else. Um, yeah.

But I, I think, I think there's, there's something there, there, especially for older people, I think. Well, yes. And I think there's, although, you know, my experience with older people, and I mean I'm talking about older than me, is they're a little more vigilant about checking receipts, right?

Maybe you're right. Maybe younger people, you, on a fixed income, you probably do that, right? I don't, you know, I'll, I think Terry's got a good point 'cause, uh, um, the, the, you know, the cyber genera, the microwave generation or what have you, they, they've grown up with these right.

Older people. These, They just use a thought. Yeah.

Well, In a good case in point, I mean, my own kids who are, who are now grown, but I would, you know, have them on cer certain of my accounts, like especially when they were in college or whatever, you can, you know, use this to do whatever. And they would, they, they weren't irresponsible. But sometimes I would say, what is this that, you know, I see you were out at such and such of, what is this charge?

Or I don't know. And they're like, oh, I'm not sure. Yeah.

They're very, they're somewhat cavalier about their use. Yeah. They're definitely cavalier about it.

But I also think, I mean, Alan, you're probably right. There's a market for that, right? And AI agent until, until that agent gets exploited someplace else in the, in the chain.

I mean, and then, you know, and then the ultimate, it's not a product, it's a feature. Eventually some financial institution just buys that and incorporates it. Incorporates it, yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mitch, what are you doing later?

You wanna work on this? Um, I'm already vibe coating and I'll, I'll send you the first. Alright.

Back in the saddle. Hey, you'd be surprised how much coating I'm doing. Yep.

All right. Um, but it is something especially, you know, very relevant in this holiday shopping time. Yeah.

To be wary of, to be wary of, be careful out there. I, I've also, I'll tell you the truth, I've seen it with duplicate PayPals too. Yeah.

Unlike duplicate Payments. Okay. Yep.

Definitely. They're never duplicate deposits, but there's always duplicate. No, I dunno, what's that all about?

It doesn't go the other way. I'm not sure why that is never, ever, ever crazy. Anyway, if we don't have anything else, yeah.

We're, you know, we're about right on time here for a change. So it's a good thing. Panel gang members, thanks for coming on today.

I appreciate it. Um, hey, we've got as usual Textron TV coming up behind here, and it's gonna be a, another great Textron tv. And then at two 30 Eastern Time, uh, I've got my shimmy says this week, and, and this, this week I'm going to, Shimmy's going to give you the shimmy view of the world about what's going on lately.

And, uh, it's, it's gonna be a good one. So if you watching this, if you're around two 30 Eastern time, LinkedIn, Twitter, or X, excuse me, LinkedIn or X, you could see it live still, and it'll be on YouTube and the usual text trunk TV network after that. Agents of Dev podcast too.

Check that out. When will that be out, Mitch? That's out.

It's out right now. Yeah. Second episode should be up today or tomorrow, actually.

It'll be up today on your favorite, on your favorite podcast platforms. Yep. Agents of Dev.

I that's, and it has a really cool opening too. It does. I like it.

That's the best guy. What, do you have to plug anything going in your world? Um, no.

Oh, you're Actually, I don't, I don't wanna step on a shimmy or a, or, or an agents of Dev. Those are really excellent. Um, and, uh, uh, I'm actually pleased to say that, um, I am not going to be, uh, engaging in any events or streaming content for about a month.

So Good for you, man. Except here on Textron Gang. Except for here on Textron Gang.

Yes, Absolutely. All right. Until tomorrow.

Thanks everyone. This is Alan Shimel. On behalf of Textron and Textron Gang, we're outta here.