H1B Visa Costs and Data Center Innovations | TSG Ep. 929

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Happy Tuesday and welcome to our Tuesday TechOne Gang. We've got a great lineup of topics and a better, even a better lineup of people for this wonderful Tuesday. Let me introduce you to our gang members.

We have JP Morgenthal, Wiki Wang, Mitch Ashley, and the Dean Mike Fazar gang. It was a bit of a crazy weekend. And Monday, um, it seems we have a new philosophy in the US com, a country that was built on immigrants and immigration.

Anybody could come in as long as you have the money, right? Uh, the H one B visas are now a hundred grand a year, but you could buy the Willy Wonka Golden Visa for a million bucks. My goodness, my goodness.

But anyway, Mike, you, why don't you take this? What, what are we, what are we doing here? So, so here's the deal.

So they announced Trump administration that it will cost you a hundred thousand dollars to get an H one B visa a year. However, if you are already here, under said program, that will be grandfathered in essentially, and you won't have to pay this particular fee. So it may wind up that a lot of folks will just wind up staying here for a long period of time.

It was kind of a chaotic announcement. The executive order went out and then everybody flipped out, and then there was clarifications as to what the president really meant to say, the usual kind of thing. And these days in the Trump administration, it seems like.

Um, but the other thing about this program, it's interesting, this move is getting praised by both the left and the right. There are people who like this thing, the H one B Visa program itself has been controversial for as long as anybody remembers. Um, 70% of these visas go to folks from one country, primarily from India.

And a lot of folks have said this whole program needed to be revamped, maybe tossed in favor of something else. But, um, I feel like we're just kind of doing our usual heavy hammer approach to solving issues. Well, I think what we've got here is President Trump, uh, has, uh, said to his tech bro supporters, how do you like me now?

Uh, because this is certainly a, a arrow in the heart to the tech world, right? The tech world is probably the single biggest user of H one B visas and has been forever. Um, and for good reason.

You know, I don't care if people are of Indian or Southeast Asian or Chinese or Singapore or Filipino or Eastern Europe or wherever they come from. If they have good talent and skills that helps keep this country preeminent in technology, we need to use them. We, we should have a mechanism of bringing them in.

You wanna attach money to it? A hundred thousand dollars a year. A year, that's $300,000 over the life of most of these H one B visas, Mike, are three years, I believe.

Mm-hmm. So even your point about the grandfather that did, I think it only counts for the rest of their, their three year term, when they go to get a new one or renew it, they're on the a hundred grand a year system too. So let, let's say what this really is, this is eliminating the H one B visa as a means of bringing in skilled workers.

So we'll be able to get people who went to Utah for a half a semester, dropped out and went to electrical school and asked them to be the next ver generation of coders in this country. Because we don't have enough people who are taking those kind of skilled classes and training. We don't have enough STEM people.

And so what we're really doing here is we're taking what, what the Trump administration itself has set out to be the golden egg, our tech leadership, our tech preeminence and ai and quantum and cloud and everything else, and saying we are gonna cut off the pipeline of fresh blood, of new talent, of skilled workers coming in here. 'cause we want Americans in flyover stamp with a high school diploma to take these jobs. I don't think the jobs are gonna to come to the us.

I think most companies who are using these programs are just gonna, we're gonna Move out Back to where there those people are. So it'll just mean more of the development work will move to India because they won't have as many people here working, you know, on the same time zone as somebody who, you know, normally it's somebody working for an outsourcing firm who's working for some, you know, enterprise company, and they just wanted somebody in the same time zone. So they used these visas.

But, uh, you know, I think we'll just do more of this quote unquote globalization and just put their workload back to where those people are in the first place, which is probably gonna be somewhere in India. And that's antithesis to what the Trump administration wants, right? They're anti globalists.

It, it, it, it does seem that they are ignorant to the impact long term, right? If you, this is an opportunity to build and build the knowledge here. And I, I don't think they fully understand or have thought through the impact to the programs and what's going to happen in the US.

Now, some will say that perhaps this is part of their underlying plan. I I tend to feel that there is a potential for some chaotic, uh, uh, shift mm-hmm. In what they're trying to achieve much more isolationism again, uh, you know, like circa in 1940 before World War ii, we were very much an isolation Thirties.

Yeah. But we don't, and the problem is, you have a 1940s run the country mentality in a 2000 era technology world. And so JP lemme just, it's not the forties.

The forties was already World War ii and it was Roosevelt. This is really the twenties leading to something called the stock market crash at 29. Right?

It's the tariff bills, the anti-immigration, the isolationism. That all happened in the twenties. And as a result, we had the Great Depression, right?

By the forties. Roosevelt had already put 10 years of trying to build things back up here. And, and I'm sorry to, I just wanted to correct you on that.

But I, It's funny 'cause I always assume, uh, I always associate isolationism with our desire not to enter the war until we were forced into it. Right? The problem is by that, by then we had so shrunk in our military and our industrial capacity that it took us years.

I, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what I hated about this program. It was basically United States government, uh, coming up with a method that would enable companies to depress the salary levels of IT folks artificially, right? Because now suddenly I had somebody else coming in from overseas who was gonna do a gig at a lower cost.

And that might have been maybe good for the end customer if that got passed along to them or not, who knows? But it most certainly depressed the level of salary that could be commanded by other IT professionals in this country. And that's not something the United States government should be involved in.

I think That's been the big criticism of the program. I think historically, I don't know if that's still true. I, you know what?

India is not the cheapest place in software engineers anymore. You might be better off going to Eastern Europe or the Philippines or Vietnam or, or something like that. Um, Well, let's face it, a company's gonna have to really want somebody to pay that kind of money to bring them in per year, right?

So does it bring in the elite of the elite or does it bring in the elite of the family treasure chest to bring you into the state? Probably some of both, but I think that's the main criticism that they're going after. Um, but, but it begs the question of, well, why do we even have one anyway?

If that's really the purpose is to keep American jobs, keep American jobs. I'm not saying we should do this. I'm just saying that's it's a bit of a, a counter.

Yeah, I understand that's what you wanna do. But you're now creating an even greater class social system of people who can't afford, or companies who can't afford. So, you know, they're paying good money after, after that a hundred KA year or whatever million dollar the golden ticket is to get these people here.

I mean, to be, yeah. I'm sorry, I add something here, right? Because I'm the first, uh, generation immigration, and I was H one B holder.

Um, so I specifically checked this one, uh, when I first heard out. It's, it's the shock news, right? Um, it end up like this new, this rules only apply for the people who tried to apply the H one BMB oversee.

So people within United States still keep the old rules, I think, but it do have some impact for the startup who has a shortage on the technology talent. If you think back how, why we have H one B, right? There are a class, class of workers like United States has shortage.

They don't have enough people. So they offer this kind of feedback. But now if you increase application pay shortage is still shortage.

I don't feel it will bring the, the job back to the United States. But let's see this, this, I I, I don't, I don't disagree to be clear, the million dollar golden ticket is not an H one B visa for a million bucks. They give you the, the full on, uh mm-hmm.

Full on Visa. I would, I would just say that, you know, compared to what some folks are commanding for AI salaries these days, a hundred grand is nothing. Well, that's a good point.

Yeah. For someone like that. Sure.

They're paying way over that to get that kind of talent now. Yeah. Well, I, but here, here's the bigger issue guys.

What it really is, is we hung a giant for sale sign on the Statue of Liberty, right? 'cause that's, that's America under this administration. Everything's for sale.

You want to give 50 grand to the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, and he'll get you some influence. Don't worry, they'll quash that. We're not gonna do that investigation.

You wanna find out what's going on with poverty and stuff? I'm very sorry we canceled that report. We'll let you know when we have something else out.

You want to know what the latest job numbers and everything is? Well, we'll, we'll let you know. It's not important.

You don't need to know. You want something, just write. You got your checkbook, pull it out and you're good.

You, you don't have a checkbook. How about buying some Trump coin, Bitcoin or crypto? And, and you can get your way there too.

You want to export some AI chips that are forbidden. Not a problem. By some more coins.

So, so before you get, this is what this, this is, this is a real problem Before you get too far on that particular soapbox, but there is one thing on this thing that is gonna be problematic. The administration has a tendency to come up with exceptions. And so somebody's gonna go down to Mor, I'll go hang out for a little bit, and suddenly there's gonna be a half price sale on Visas.

It's called Taco Tuesday here on the gang. I do heard Though, direct before this all starts. Yeah.

So I mean, and like everything else, right? So when, so there was a time, and, and I'm talking as a government and politics major. Now, you can't rule by fiat.

You can't rule by executive order. There comes a time where the Congress has to, the legislature has to approve these things. Now I get it that they're all in La Gus step with the fur.

But, but when are we gonna have some congressional action on this? Right? Thi this is, and, and one of the, I mean, the lower courts all will claim, Hey, you gotta do, this is exceeding your power.

You gotta go to Congress now. You know, who knows what the Supreme Court will do? Well, we all know what the Supreme Court will do.

They know they're just, you know, the latest, uh, kangaroos. But it there, this is not the way we're supposed to. This government's supposed to work.

I'm sorry. The interesting thing about it too, Alan, is that it, with this, the outcomes are measurable, right? How many, how many, if we're not issuing of jobs or visas, how many people are we hiring overseas to stay overseas if we're not issuing those visas?

How many people, how many people fill those jobs from the American side, from the US citizens side of the, of the equation? Yeah, but let me, let me give you the, so that's the moderate response. Let me give you the extreme response.

How many companies are made overseas in China, in France, in, in name the countries mm-hmm. Who now say, Hey, don't bother with those crazy Americans in their a hundred thousand dollars visas. Come work for me.

Come work for me. We're doing exciting things. We're investing more in r and d.

The rest of the world doesn't wanna play with them anyway. They wanna, here you'll be able to play with the rest of the world. And before you know it, your preeminence in tech is, is up in smoke.

I mean, we already see it with the, with the, uh, with the, uh, digital sovereignty Yeah. Actions that companies are taking to All the European companies. Yeah.

I wrote an Article. So she signed a Euro stack, which is, you know, an agreement to create a European technology stack. And, uh, that's not, that's just one of many, right?

Sue just came out with a, a, an offering in it as well. Mm-hmm. Um, you're gonna see more and more of this.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Right? Um, I normally do not like to talk about politic part or I like tech, right?

But it's kind of interesting. You see all those series of way people treat like how to manage country, like how to manage p and l, right? I feel like those are totally different systems.

Yeah. No, they, they really are. Alright.

Hey, I think we've made our point. Let's take a break here and come back and talk about, uh, what's Google doing with Chrome? First?

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Hey folks, we're back. And as Alan was talking about, yeah, Google's now at least foreshadowing what they intend to do with AI and the Chrome browser. And I guess maybe this is a little bit of an exercise in trying to freeze the market somewhat, jp I mean, it seems to me like a lot of these features I looked at in here seem pretty cool, but it doesn't seem like they're gonna show up anytime soon.

Well, I mean, they're already starting to show up. I, I actually like the direction overall from an architecture. I think it's, uh, I think it's really, I think it's happening already, except people are now having to cut and paste in order to enable, uh, this kind of activity.

So they will do a search, they'll find some additional information, then they probably will deep research it in a, uh, LLM uh, application. And so all this is doing is saying, um, you know, let's integrate the two steps right into one activity, which is what I think people want. They want user experience.

Now the question is, is because, you know, with Google Chrome is how long is it before, um, somebody steps up and, and says, you know, this is a monopolistic, uh, you need to open it up and make it pluggable. I mean, we, this, I'm surprised they even didn't do that from the get go based upon what we learned from Microsoft and IE years ago, right? And it's like, do you really?

Yeah. Are you, are you really gonna force us to go to court and you're gonna get, you know, and waste, you know, hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on, uh, legally being told that, yeah, you need to open up the API so that open AI can plug in their LLM into this functionality. Right?

Or, or maybe we just end up with the browser wars again. Oh, you don't wanna let me in your door, fine, I'll create my own. Because hey, chromium is free by the way.

I, um, Microsoft's edge is already based on it, right? Uh, it's not difficult to take the chromium base and build your own browser. So are we gonna see the Anthropic browser?

Are we gonna see the open AI browser? So we either end up either, you know, Google gets sued, uh, and they get told naked and open api. So everybody can plug users can make the choice what, uh, engine they want to use as part of this functionality or, uh, ever.

Or we see ano a new browser war emerging because everyone's like, fine, if, if that's what Google's gonna do, then I'll just create my own chromium for my LLM. Uh, I, I, I think both are really, I, I would like to see the more open one, obviously, right? Plug in the one that I like best.

Um, perhaps even allow multiple, like, ooh, you know, for this particular search, I would like to use sonnet. But for this other one I'd like to use Gemini and, uh, and have that option, right? So that, um, I get different responses.

I can see the alternatives. Uh, and, and in, we all know that different LLMs respond differently anyway. So isn't that part of the, the research effort?

I I, but overall I, let's take away the, um, politics, if you will, of the industry, right? And, and, and the, uh, maneuvering and just look at what it is technologically. I think it, it, it's a phenomenal, you know, it makes the browser much more useful.

Plus I think it starts to reduce the fears that people will have that browsers are going away. Everything is gonna become LLM searches, right? It's, you know, so it doesn't even matter anymore.

We don't see search, we don't see the, the search returns anymore. Uh, it all gets analyzed by an LLM and then you just see the results. So this is a way of saying, no, you still gonna do search, but you're integrating in this intelligence to help expand and understand that information better.

And I like that model. I like that. I think that's a good model for the general user.

So, jp, I, I agree and disagree. First of all, the courts today aren't what the courts were when Internet Explorer was kind of, you know, hogtied. The only way a court is going to come down on Google and force them to do things on, on uh, Chrome is if the suit's over in the eu.

I, I, I agree with that. Yeah, that's the way. But that, but that's where it's likely gonna happen, is, well, That's the only place that it'll have any teeth.

But secondly here, here's how I see it. Google, Google gotta get outta jail free card with Chrome. They got away with being a monopoly, but they're still allowed to keep Chrome.

They may open some stuff up, great. But what they do see is that there is a new generation of browsers that are going to throw the cards in the air, and we'll see who the new winner is. You've got the perplexity one.

OpenAI is coming out with one. I'm sure the rest of 'em are, are not far behind. And so, you know, this was an arms race.

Google had to go, had to up their game to compete with these up and coming, you know, new generation of browsers. And if you are Google, what's your biggest ace in the, in the hall that you are already the dominant browser. So you don't, you're not going to give that up, right?

And so you're just gonna kind of build powerly. No, you're gonna have to pry it outta there. Cold, dead hands.

But, so they're going to, they're gonna make Chrome an AI browser to compete with this next generation. Now, here's the thing I where I really disagree with you. This ain't about search.

This is not about search. I think AI search is gonna overtake Google search. It already is growing three and a half times faster.

I see it on our, uh, Google Analytics for all of our websites. Mm-hmm. How much search is coming from AI and perplexity and so forth.

What it really becomes is this AI browser becomes the new UX to do your work. Not just search your apps live in there, your work in there, it becomes the new desktop. And that's what Google, you know, you've got Google, the whole Google What, what's the Google office called Mitch?

I forget. Workspace. Workspace.

But they've already done that. It's already embedded in workspace. It's already Google.

Yes, it's, but workspace may not be the dominant workspace. If I've got a, let's say open AI comes out, or perplexity has a, a, an AI powered workspace that I Think the way to think about it, Alan, I I agree with what you're saying. We've talked about this, you and I, um, you know, the last thing you even bought a browser, the browser company, right?

Yeah. It last, the anticipation of this, which is the expectation is that browsers shift from searching content on the internet to actually managing, directing and consuming what AI does for you, right? Whether you're managing the bots and the, the tasks and the things that happening, what's going, what's going on across the different tabs on your browser.

You're not switching between them, um, but doing searches for maybe doing tasks for you, all that kind of thing. But the application kind of providers, the people writing code see that this is a threat because of Google now controls what you can present to the end user for their apps, then they lose, right? And they may not put in the functionality that an Atlassian or whoever else wants.

And that's the thread about this, which is, do you want Google to win that war? Do you want Microsoft to win that war? Do you want a perplexity to win that war?

Mm-hmm. So instead of SaaS, we have bass browser as a service. Where, where, and that's your front end, Ricky, I, Mike, go ahead.

I think it's already happened. I'm sitting here on Google Chrome as we record this. And I'm looking around all my little apps, and I think I can see this in Iny, tiny little Microsoft store icon somewhere on the lower left hand side.

And that's about all I see of Microsoft on the screen right now. And I think the apps guys are gonna use browsers just to really park Microsoft as a backend, uh, client enabling technology. And then, to your point, everything on the backend is just gonna wind up being a, a service, because I don't need a gooey to go access the CMS.

It's all gonna come through the browser. I think it, it's makes it much more difficult to determine, is pick your poison to pick a Google or Microsoft, whoever is the browser, the new new AI browser, is it favoring that provider's content? 'cause it's no longer the list and the order and what shows up in a search result, right?

It it, it's the Gemini interface to start with. That's at least what it looks like today. It'll look different over time, but I think it, it sort of obfuscates what's happening behind the scenes.

Well, don't forget on the back end, there are now, um, like robots text, which used to tell the browser what you can and can't take. There are now files that tell AI what you can and cannot take. Uh, and this is a lot more, this is a lot more strict than the robots that text was because actually it benefited people to have their content show up in a search.

But they know that when AI is the middleman, that their content is often masked, and the source of that information is not necess, even, even if it is transparency, may not even get recognized, right? Because the reader doesn't actually care where it came from so much as the content itself. So people are going to be much more strict about what they allow these ai, you know, engines, the LLMs to go and see on their sites.

And, and so I mean, the question, you know, go, if you go down that path, you end up with less content being able to, to actually fulfill the, the requests that are being made. I think about it this way too. JP does pick a, pick a company.

Does Salesforce and Slack want Google to know what their bots, what their AI is doing within the browser? Workflow is all part of that. Yes, they can track some of that today with browsers, but not to the degree I think you could in the next generation AI Mitch.

So they're more comfortable with perplexity tracking it. Well, well maybe I'd today until perplexity becomes a threat. Well, Well, at least my perplexity guys.

Wy had something to say earlier. I don't know. Sorry, Wiki, I didn't mean to cut you.

I Totally agree with you guys, right? Like the browser actually is to agent as well, right? Because there are, I believe there are several three ways, like in filter you can integrate with AI agent and make it to a gate for the AI agent.

And louder is one of them. And that's what important company, they try to have the product so they can control the future of the AI agent as well. So I'm a little, I am concerned about the following scenario, right?

So more and more AI slop gets created using Gemini, and then Gemini starts to rank that stuff higher because, well, Gemini created it, so therefore Gemini must think it's okay. And at the end of the day, we wind up with this, you know, unvirtuous cycle of slop that's popping up in there. Well, that's all part of the balkanization of the internet, right?

Because then Croatia is better than Serbia, which is better than Montenegro, which is better than Kosovo. I forgot all my little parts of Yugoslavia. But, um, you know, this, this is what happens is when you go to Google Land, or may maybe a better analogy is, uh, water, the rings when you go to Google Land, Google search rules.

But when you are on perplexity, you have a different algorithm for searches. Forget algorithm. You have a different favorite for searchers and open AI and, and everyone else has it.

So it's, um, I want, I want jps thing, but I want like, maybe if I can figure out how to do it, I'd like to have two or three of them going at the same time so I could see what they were generating and compare. Well, but you know, this reminds me of, was it Einstein? Is is, was it Salesforce was doing Einstein?

Mm-hmm. Where you could plug like any LLM into the back end of it. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Cover broker for the LLMs. Yeah.

Right. Maybe, maybe that, and maybe if these guys don't play nice, some new company we don't know of yet comes out with an open chromium based browser that does have sort of a Einstein layer and people who, who care about these things go out and, and adopt that. Or there's a memo from the EU on its way Yeah.

On the investment side as well. I see a lot of great startups recently come up in this area. Yeah.

Very interesting. Yeah, Absolutely. All right, let's take a break.

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This may come as a surprise to you, but there are lawsuits being generated now around all these data center projects. And there's one in Michigan that's kind of interesting because the people who are proposing to build a data center are now suing the township that passed some, uh, a vote, essentially among their leadership of the council that said that they could not zone this area to run data centers. And now it's gonna become a, a court battle, I guess, for as long as we can go.

And Alan, you know, and I'll go to Mitch on this first, but I'll come back to you in a minute for your legal opinion, but Mitch, are we gonna see more and more of these things? And I am reminded of, in my own town, some developer built a house that was far exceeded the, uh, zoning laws, and then they built it anyway, and then they dared the town to sue them, and the town didn't have a whole lot of money. So that house still sits there.

Well, I can kind of relate to this one. Maybe that's why you're coming to me as the Nebraska boy. Do I want, uh, you know, that nice green farmland right behind my house or behind my, if I live out in the country, do I want that overtaken by a data center?

And that's essentially what the case is here in, in, in Saline, Michigan. You're welcome to the, to the Textron gang. We're talking about you folks.

The, they're claiming the, the data center building, uh, builder related digital is claiming that the, the council did something illegal in changing the zoning laws, just not letting them build their, their, uh, 250 acre plushy plus hyperscaler data center. Not the first, not the first lawsuit. We're gonna see about this.

There's a lot of legal lawyer legal gonna get being paid to do these kinda lawsuits. I think. And, and we'll see, the problem is, you're, you're talking about local jurisdiction, local rules.

This is, isn't just some, you know, national, uh, uh, threat or national lawsuit, excuse me. Um, that you can kind of say, well, if it worked there, we can go after and do the same thing in all these other locations. No, they all have their own laws and jurisdictions and rules and councils and all that kind of thing.

So it sounds kinda like a big mess to me. Yeah, I mean, well, you know, Mike, you asked for a legal opinion. Look, towns are free to make zoning their own zoning laws.

And, and there's nothing more local than zoning, right? You don't have federal zoning laws. Well hub a hub zone or something like that, a economic development zone.

But, you know, building zoning laws are really the epitome of, of local ruling. However, my only point is, and I don't know enough about this case enough, is this a, an ex post facto law? In other words, did they, did they enact the law after everything was all set and approved and done, and then kind of pulled the rug out from under a right.

That, that you, that will not stand you, you can't go ex expose facto on this, right? You can't say today you can do it, and then you rely on that and spend money and do everything and then say, oh, changed our mind jk, right? And we changed our mind.

So absent of that, I, I think you're gonna see a lot of towns doing this. I mean, who wants a Manhattan sized data center in, in, in the middle of your greenfield? Um, and, and you know, I, again, I, I have, I've written a few articles, some might still be in the queue on this for Textron it, but you know, this data center, boom, it's, it's driving up our electric rates.

You and I and everyone out here are paying more money in electricity because the utilities have to increase their ba their capacity to, to, you know, pay to, to light up these data centers. Um, a a liquid water cooled data center uses like, something like can use up to 2 million gallons a day of water, right? So if you're wa in a water challenged area, you've, you've got that, like in, in Phoenix wants to be the head of, you know, the big data center capital.

Where do they have the water for this? So you are going to see local townships and local legislatures and local governments say, Hey, it's not worth it. It's not, it doesn't create that many jobs.

It's, it, we were sold the bill of goods, it's not worth it, and they're gonna try to change things. Is this the right way? By doing it as a zoning thing after the fact, if it was after the fact, I don't know.

I did check different, a will Have different reactions though. El Paso last week just approved the data center project on narrowly, but If you were in El Paso, you would too. I did check and they, uh, this, this, this part of the country, this township or whatever, I did have a master plan.

This area was apparently designated as as agriculture. Oh, okay. Agricultural.

Now, I don't know, I didn't quite see how a data center is agricultural. Um, but of course, is it an industrial, is that the kind of zoning you need to do? I think what's gonna happen is that we'll see townships, et cetera, explicitly stating whether data centers can be built.

So there's either black and white, you can or can't do it, or if you could do it, but you could do it over these areas. Otherwise, now you're talking about, you know, interpretation of the law and on, you know, kind of, right. So Data centers are gonna have a particular zoning designation, not just industrial, not agricultural, not residential, not retail data center.

Mm-hmm. Will be a thing. But let me, let me throw something else out at you guys to just ponder and chew on.

Historically with these kinds of things. You know, what happens? Well, off people don't have data centers in their developments or in their neighborhoods or in their areas.

And let's put the data center in, in those people's neighborhoods. They don't have souls anyway to quote the Godfather, right? And so you're gonna have data centers, if you see a data center, you're gonna say to yourself, Ooh, must be a low income neighborhood because they didn't have the wherewithal to keep it outta here.

And so it glows at night or, or whatever. So, you know, jp, you're smiling. We grew up in that.

I, no, because I mean, two of the biggest data center, one of the biggest data center areas with two huge facilities is Ashburn, Virginia, Northern Virginia, which is a well to do area Very well to do a lot of money. Yeah. And I mean, what they did was they stuck them right on the side of a highway and, um, you know, they're out of the way.

They're really not part of the neighborhood, but you know, they're accessible. Um, and they're, you know, where, I mean, if anything, they probably keeping volume of traffic, you know, sound, uh, down because they're, it's filtering off the highway there. Um, and it's not letting it come out onto the street.

I mean, it, it's agriculturally or ecologically. It's, it's a good mix, right? It where they located it, but it's also, it's not indicative of a low income at all.

The fact that, that it's, no, but that's a different data center to be, to be honest, right? You're talking about the, like when I helped do inter reliant, we had a data center in Tyson's Corner. It was the old a ll headquarters, and it was just what you're saying, it was a nondescript brick building right off the highway.

And I forget how many, if we had 20,000, 30,000 square feet of data center space there, something like that. It was a nice size little data center. Wasn't the biggest, wasn't the smallest.

That's not these AI factories that we're talking about, though. These AI factories that they're building are literally the size of Manhattan. That's awful.

Hard to hide, you know, behind some green curtain or something. And the environmental impacts a lot bigger. This is today's the, the 2025 version of the high power megawatt overhead power lines, right?

Do I want those running through my neighborhood? Do I want, now do we want a data center at the end of those? Yeah.

So do you think these are always gonna be in rural places, or will they like try to build a data center in, I don't know, some part of the Bronx where they just wanna level everything and they're just gonna use it as an excuse? Mike? I would never, I would never suggest that they do anything bad to the Bronx, you know, that.

But, but think about it, building it in a rural area in Nebraska, to Mitch's point, not only do I gotta bring the, the electricity there, the cooling there, the bandwidth there, whatever few jobs it brings, I gotta have bring the people there, right? That's a lot of theirs. Versus if I built it, you know, in a somewhat more suburban urban area, We can, I could, we could jump in There.

No, I totally get it. Why people try to build up the data center on the ocean. Right?

And last year I saw there's a, like we sea uh, startup, they try to build up the data center, something under the, under the ocean within the, within the water. Now I totally get it. Yeah.

Well that would, There's actually a lot of good e evidence that that is a smart direction. One, you, you, they use the waves, uh, for energy. Yep.

They use the, the temperature to keep the cooling. Yeah. So a lot of, a lot of what you need to run a data center is free when you go down a certain depth into the, into the water, into the, a large body of the water And there's no lawsuit, right?

I guess, Yes, somebody will sue somebody for sure. However, I would also point out that, you know, as soon as we figure out that we don't need all these data centers, it'll be great for the coral. So there you go.

There you go. That can become artificial reefs. That's some Things, yeah.

Al A place to live. Yeah. Okay.

Dual. Uh, they call that a dual use in the business. But, um, anyway, guys, we're about outta time.

What a, some interesting, some interesting topics to discuss here today. I, I enjoyed it. I hope you did.

I hope all of you did as well. Hey, listen, uh, today is Tuesday and we, we actually recorded this a day early, but I wanna say happy Rosh Hashanah too. My, my, uh, Lansman and all those who celebrate.

I also want to remind you that this week we are going to be live on Tech Shrunk TV for a tech field day, uh, cyber Security Tech Field Day. And I believe that plays on, uh, is it Tuesday and Wednesday or Wednesday and Thursday, Mitch? Something That I don't know, but, but it days this week.

Yeah, I would guess Wednesday, Thursday. But I'll, we'll double check. We'll post it.

So do, do follow along with that, of course, we will have gang episodes. Mike Ard will be running the show. And, uh, and of course we have text on TV immediately following as usual.

com, cloud native now, or digital CXO or the UR group as well. I know, Mitch, you've got a lot going on there, jp. I see you time to time on LinkedIn publishing lately.

Yes. Uh, it, it happens to be probably my biggest source, uh, is publishing on LinkedIn. It just, you know, you, you spread the content out in too many different places.

It's, it's difficult to, uh, to get, uh, the attention you want. So yeah, LinkedIn's become a primary source and then I just link to that elsewhere. Excellent.

All right. Hey Alan. The, uh, tech Field day or security field day is Wednesday, Thursday.

It is Wednesday, Thursday, yeah. And the companies are folks like one password, HPE info blocks, Nile Square X, some great, great companies to, so it'd be very interesting. Stay tuned.

Absolutely. So check, check that out. Alright.

Hey everyone. Wiki, jp, Mike, Mitch, thanks for joining. Thank you for watching.

This is Alan Shimel. We're out.