97. Security Is More Than AI in 2026 – Tech Field Day Podcast

Conference season is upon us, and RSAC is coming up soon. But what are the things that are gonna be discussed? And are they gonna include ai?

This week, a very challenging episode. We are gonna be talking about all things related to security that don't involve ai. Welcome to the Tech Field Day podcast, where we bring together a group of IT technical experts to discuss a single idea about key concepts in the industry.

This podcast features a variety of perspectives from members of the Tech Field Day delegate community, and is often associated in association with one of our events. Tech Field Day is a part of the featuring group, and this podcast is also published, our sister company's website, tech Strong tv. On this episode, we're gonna be discussing security, but before we get to that, I wanna have a chance for our guest to introduce themselves so you know who you're listening to, starting with Drew.

Hey, I'm Drew Connery Murray. I am with Packet Pushers. Uh, we are a tech podcast outfit covering the IT industry.

You can hear me co-hosting our Heavy Networking Network break and packet Protector podcasts. Hi, I'm Jack Poller. I am CEO and principal analyst for Paradigm Technica.

We are a cybersecurity industry analyst and research firm. And of course, I'm Tom Hollingsworth, event lead here at Tech Field Day. Let's jump into the premise for this episode.

No doubt, you have been hearing a lot about security, especially for me, if you've tuned into our Security Boulevard podcast. But today I wanted to bring on a couple of my friends from the industry who are gonna be joining me at the RSAC conference this year to talk a little bit about some of the bigger trends in security. And I, I gave a challenge before we started with this because I didn't wanna talk about AI stuff necessarily.

'cause I know that we, we talk about that a lot. So the premise for this episode is that security in 2026 is more than just ai. So I'm gonna kind of throw this out here to you gentlemen, because you know, I know Jack, you live in the security world and Drew, you do a lot of security podcasts with our friend jj.

Um, what are some of the trends that you're seeing in security that kind of stand out to you, that don't necessarily have to do directly with securing against prompt injection or dealing with rogue agents? Well, I think one of the important things to consider is we are really starting to see the implementation of Zero Trust. And Zero Trust is all about identity.

And I, and I hate to use this term, it's another one, like those forbid words, but, uh, uh, identity is the new perimeter. And really what we're seeing is a big shift from looking at place and time to be, uh, controlling how you access resources to identity, being controlling how you access resources. And I think that trend is important because we're just moving so quickly with everything we're doing.

Uh, the, and we've, you know, the cloud has sort of erased our concept of a boundary, uh, physical boundary location, boundary time boundary. So I think we need to rethink everything and move towards this. Yeah, I'm seeing, um, that as well as, um, a kind of a renewed interest in sort of the endpoint, uh, and in particular the browser.

A lot of activity around trying to secure the browser in various ways, either by delivering a custom secure browser or putting controls in so that you have some visibility into control over extensions and what people are up to in the browser and the endpoint in general. I think in part it's been driven by issues around things like, you know, malicious NPM packages, IDE extensions, browser extensions that start off looking like a useful tool. And then, you know, the, the malware creator lets them sort of get adopted and then flips the evil bit and, and suddenly your end point is compromised.

NN never flip the evil bit unless you wanna be RFC evil bit compliant, which used to hang on my door by the way. It was great because I just like moved a little magnetic slider over to warn people if I was feeling evil that day. Um, but you both, you both bring up really interesting points and, and I will small plug for everybody out there.

Uh, we had both examples of both of those at our previous Security Field day event in the fall of 2025, uh, where we talked to one password who had a really great example of, you know, talking about some of the identity based stuff that they're dealing with, but also from Square X, which is a secure browser company that actually was just recently acquired by Zscaler, uh, which I thought was a really interesting pickup for them as they kind of work through sassy SSE Magic. Um, I wanna dive into that second topic First drew the, the idea behind the secure browser, because this is one of the things that a lot of people have been talking about for years. Uh, if anybody remembers the, the horror that was Internet Explorer four with all of those browser helper objects and all of those active X controls that were embedded into the browser, and oh my God, what are you doing?

And, you know, hey, Netscape Navigator still works and it, it still has its own foibles, but like we've been fighting the browser wars for a long time and it looked like for at least for the foreseeable future, chromium was gonna win out. And then we started piling security pieces on top of it as we started kind of turning the browser less into a functional piece of software just designed as browse webpages and more into effectively a user portal. Uh, and, and we didn't just see that from companies that were building these objects in, if you look at things like ARC and Brave and, and other consumer focused browsers, like they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff to, you know, provide additional functionality and stuff like that.

But that never really carried into the enterprise until today where we're seeing, like most of the applications that we're using are web-based. Like it's, it's whether or not they're using a web functionality like, uh, safari or a Chrome or they're, uh, just a, a rebuilt electron app. I mean that's if for those of you out there who use Slack, guess what kids, that's basically a custom browser.

Uh, but if you have something that can install itself into Electron, then you basically create a secure front end. Do you see kind of also bringing Jack's point in here, do you see that as a way to kind of control the identity crisis of we have, uh, a lot of users who are accessing all of these software pieces from all over the world and we need a way to basically kind of funnel them into a choke point and that becomes a browser that's running, uh, an extension that allows us to do security right there? Yeah, I guess I'll, my impression is that in the past that the primary risk from the browser was, uh, are your employees going to be shopping or looking at naughty sites, uh, you know, time wasting, uh, exposing you to either time wasting risks or some kind of liability from looking at things they shouldn't be looking at now, because the browser is essentially, uh, a productivity tool to your, um, gateway to a bunch of corporate apps with lots of sensitive data.

The attention now is, I think, uh, that that's driven the attention of executives who are like, oh yeah, this is a huge risk and we're actually seeing attackers exploit the browser, uh, as a way in. So that choke point used to be the firewall. Now we're bringing right down to the end point.

Um, in, in terms of it is, I, I don't know that there's so much of an identity play in the browser, but it is definitely, we need to see what folks are running on the browser, what folks are doing in the browser. And again, with and with encryption, you know, most traffic being encrypted now, the browser's kind of the only place you can really get deep visibility into that traffic, uh, as it leaves the enterprise. One, one of the interesting things is, you know, when browsers first came out, and I don't know, you know, 30 some odd years ago with Netscape Navigator, you're dating yourself, having worked there at Netscape when it first came out, I can talk about this a little bit.

We talked at that time about the browser being the universal user interface, and for a very long time it was trending that way. It didn't make sense to develop your own full blown user interface, instead use the browser. And that eliminated a lot of development effort.

I think what we're seeing now is we're seeing to sort of see a trend starting very slowly to move away from that because there are certain things you just can't do in a browser that you need a specific user interface for. And there are a lot of things that are now happening that don't go over an HTTP or h TBS port. So instead of you're communicating on 4, 4 3, you're seeing it where it's a private communication, API to API from one of those, you know, and I'm gonna say it Tom, an AI type environment, but not thinking about the air part, just thinking about more the user, the user interaction is.

And I think it's, um, I think Drew, you said it early on, it's really more the endpoint and the endpoint is now becoming more in focus. And I think very soon we're gonna start realizing that it's not just the browser we have to worry about. There are so many other ways users are using the endpoint to communicate with, um, corporate and enterprise applications and services.

And more importantly, the endpoint is now when, when, you know, when you, we think about traditional endpoint security, we really think about it as, uh, your PC primarily in your, uh, your Apple laptop, your Mac, secondarily, uh, and I think now, um, the younger generations are starting to become very much mobile first and mobile dependent, and the endpoint security on mobile devices is still way, way, way, way behind where we're on, uh, desktop PCs and laptops. And I think we need that, that we're gonna very quickly have a problem there that we need to think about. This is why people pay Jack the big bucks folks, is because he got to the point I was gonna bring up before I ever got there.

I think that where we're at right now, especially when it comes to identity and security, is people like us. I'll just say that because we are over the age of 30 comfortably, uh, we have a very unique concept of what a, an endpoint is. Like, I was literally telling somebody yesterday about when I was an intern at IBM and uh, I took a walk with somebody because he, he was like, Hey, I wanna test this cool thing and I wanna check my email.

I'm like, you can't, your desktop is back at your desk. He goes, no, I have this thing called a Blackberry and it runs over wireless ethernet. And I'm like, cool.

And today my kids, and you know, 'cause my son is 20 and now, you know, the, his generation, they're kind of coming into the workforce. They don't like laptops. They, they wanna run off of tablets or phones.

Like the whole idea of having a place where you go to do stuff or having a four pound slug of aluminum that you carry around with you is foreign to them. And that has changed the way that people do, um, their software, right? Even on like a Mac or a Windows pc, it is an app, not a software program.

So they're trying to provide the same user interface that you might see on a mobile tablet or a mobile phone. And that creates its own challenges. Kind of, Jack, to your point, I think one of the reasons why people have moved away from using browsers as the the standard user portal in a way is because we've secured them too well, because they're sandbox now, they can't really affect anything else going on in the system because so many people have exploited it for so long.

And so we're treating the endpoint as the identity piece, right? Because, you know, lover or hate 'em, apple really does a terrible job of creating multiple user identities on their mobile devices. If I'm on a phone, it's my phone.

If I'm on a tablet, it's my tablet. In fact, the only thing that Apple makes that is really good at transferring identities is the Apple tv because you can have different people logging into the Apple tv. I think we might see that in the future as kind of like an enterprise level, um, thing for like, you know, like maybe like a host stand or like, um, you know, student identities checking in and out of an iPad.

But by and large, like we know that if someone's on an iPad and it says like, Jack's iPad, that's Jack, right? So we can enforce Jack's security policy, but the design of the OS does not allow us to do that. So we're in effect, we're kind of fighting our way uphill because iOS is like, oh no, you can't do that.

Oh, you wanna run your own browser? Well, it's really safari under the hood. And, and so people have been like challenged to come up with ways to prevent security incidents from a, an increasingly mobile workforce where I don't have visibility into that at all.

Like an iPad might as well be an island. I think there's, there's another thing, and Drew, I'm really glad that you brought this topic up because there's another aspect to it, and you alluded to it with the browser and talking about browser plugins, and that's very critical. 'cause one of the things we've seen with browser plugins is, uh, a developer will provide, you know, do some open source or free plugin and start, people start using it.

And then either, as Tom mentioned, the developer will flip the evil switch or more likely somebody else overcomes, you know, takes over that development effort and they are the evil people who just sort of over, you know, come in and take over what's going on. So we have a browser extension problem, but as we move out of the browser and we start having custom applications, a lot of these applications are also plugin enabled, so they have the ability to add feature functionality to them from third parties. And we don't, unlike Apple in the browser, in in the iOS environment, we don't have a walled garden in all of these plugins.

So we again, have this ability for people to create what appear to be benign plugins that are really have the evil switch flipped under the hood in a really malicious underneath. And so the security landscape and the, the, the footprint becomes that much larger and our, our threat exposure becomes that much larger. And it, I think, you know, there's a lot going on at RSA, but I'm not sure people are really focusing on this because I think we're too over rotated onto thinking about AI and what AI is gonna do for us.

I'll say, uh, I know recently Palo Alto Networks acquired a company called coi, uh, for I think $400 million. And that's, that's right in their wheelhouse, just starting to give you visibility into what kinds of extensions and packages are my employees downloading and using. Um, it's sort of like the old back to like, you know, virus and malware lists, but for NPMs and, and extensions and so on.

Yeah. And that's, that's one of the challenges that people are always gonna face, right? Is you have to give attention to the squeakiest wheel in the room.

And sometimes that is identity security and sometimes that's the identity of a software package running autonomously on your network, deleting all of your emails because you told it to Or You didn't tell it Not to. And how do you guard against it, right? Or, and even when you're telling it not to, it's ignoring you just like a, a junior intern who doesn't know any better.

Uh, and I, and I feel like some of the, the security pieces that we're starting see are, and this is a great conversation we had on, on Security Boulevard, was you are trying to get the human out of the loop because the human is actually creating problems here. Um, and I know like we had a really great presentation from Dave Meyer when he worked back at Brocade years and years ago at, at Networking Field Day, where he said, eventually the system will only be as robust as the number of people in it. You have to get people outta the loop.

And now what we're starting to see is that the people in the loop who are constantly going back and checking up on the agents that are running, are creating problems. And, and this was, uh, uh, something that Mitch Ashley from the Future Group brought up. He said, eventually what we're gonna have to do is we're, instead of asking the human for permission to do things, we're gonna have to have the agent do the thing and then tell the human later, Hey, I did all this stuff, you're okay with it, right?

Because security is getting to the point where the time between vulnerability detection and exploitation has shrunk from weeks to days. And I'm gonna guess sometime the next couple of years it's gonna shrink to hours for some of these vulnerabilities because you have something doing, uh, effectively multiplicative, um, exploit capability, right? Where, oh, I found this.

Let me go have dispatch like a thousand agents to go see where it's exploitable, you know, log on, toho, Dan, and all of a sudden I have like a whole bunch of stuff that I could figure out. And, and like that's that the scalability problem is what we're gonna run into. Because unfortunately, humans don't scale Well, the the, you're right that humans don't scale.

And, but the interesting thing there is talking about vulnerabilities is half of the puzzle, and I I I read about this last week, or maybe it was earlier this week, uh, in, in relation again to AI where we think about a, a lot of what we think about insecurity is either vulnerabilities or network access, and it's an attacker coming in from the outside. However, when you actually look at what's going on in the world, half of half or more of attacks are based on identity and giving somebody access to somebody's identity. And that's, whether it's social engineering or stolen identities or the fact that they're, you know, the default password was never changed for you never set a password or your password is PA sswr D one, right?

Or you have to do frequent password rotation, so you just add a number and increment that all the time. So all of those issues relate to humans and human gullibility and the ability to manipulate humans. And no matter how much we try to take humans outta the loop, humans are involved.

This is a human oriented, you know, businesses are all about people, not about the machines unless you're com building the machine, right? So how, how do we deal with social engineering and identity attacks? And if we ignore that part of the puzzle, we focus only on, you know, we can do all we want in the world on code security and, and evaluating code and network security and all these other aspects and endpoint security and eliminating malicious packages.

But if the guy's gonna fall for, Hey, you've won a million dollars, give me your, you know, your username, your password, and your date, first date of birth and your mother's maiden name, you know, for, if you can't get past that, then we're still, we're, you know, we're leaving half of the landscape uncovered. And I, you know, that's, I think identity is gonna be the other part of the puzzle that that's gonna be a big thing in RSA. No, I, I agree.

And, and may a culpa, I'm just gonna admit this to my entire listening public, I almost fell for a phishing attack the other day because it came from somebody that I recognize the email and I'm like, oh, maybe this is something they need me to take a look at. And as soon as I clicked on it, it wanted me to log in with my Google address, I was like, wait a minute. Something doesn't smell right here.

And then when I mentioned it to the person, you know what their response was? Who in the hell uses Zoom docs? Like, like that?

That was their exp And, and then of course I'm like, you know, you got a point. Nobody, nobody does that. And, and, and that's the problem we're running into is we have taught people the basics, right?

Like, you know, don't give out your, your PII on a phone call or don't just answer the emails that people send you, check all the links, but I checked the links and they looked legitimate. It's just the, the, the way that we're, we're hitting a thing like, oh, I haven't logged into that system for 20 years. Like, like obviously I must reset my password to get in there.

Oh, oh wait, no, you're harvesting information now. And, and that's, I think that's where people are kind of figuring out, like you can't bust in through the front door, but you can come in through the smoking door if you're paying attention. And for those of you who are in your twenties, the smoking door used to be the unsecured door in the building where the smokers gotta go out and have a cigarette.

And, and there are tons and tons of stories about, uh, penetration testers who slipped in there 'cause they had a pack of cigarettes and nobody asked questions. Yeah, Jack, I think you're right to, to talk about identity as being one of the great unsolved problems. Uh, and it's just getting worse as we throw agentic AI in there.

But also social engineering, uh, has been an issue basically since the dawn of computing. And I don't see it going away. And in some ways, uh, you know, LLMs make it easy for maybe non-native language speakers who are attacking a specific country or user group to craft even better, more effective social engineering messages, Right?

And, and we have, we have developed ways to eliminate some of the risks with social engineering. So we've moved from password based authentication to passwordless where you use, uh, uh, you know, two factor authentication is still easy to be, uh, socially engineered. But when you use pass keys, phyto pass keys, it's a lot harder to break into.

There's no known compromise right now. It's very hard to social engineer it. It's very locked down.

Uh, you know, and yet most companies I deal with are still, you know, most enterprises, you look at most enterprises today, and they barely make MFA mandatory, let alone go to this new technology. And I don't understand, given the breadth of capabilities we have the number of vendors at RSA who are gonna be talking about this, what, why is it so hard to get people to put the very simplest lock and key? They'll spend a billion dollars on advanced, you know, zero day protections and endpoint protection and this, that and the other, and they still allow people to log in with basic password protection, which is, it's essentially meaningless.

You know, and I don't understand, I, I wish there was some way at the RSA conference that that could be, you know, we could spend an entire year just saying, lock the front door. You know, I maybe it's because there's not a great way for, uh, security companies to make money off of pass keys. Is is could be the issue.

I it's being a little cynical, but I, that that could be part of it. Oh, Drew, the Senate comes out again, boy, we haven't seen him in a while. Now.

I drew you bring up a really good point. A lot of it is driven by, by, uh, basically by investment potential, right? Like, like I, it, it's the old, uh, the people who distrust, uh, doctors and pharmacists.

'cause they're like, well, why would I cure you when I can just sell you a, you know, a solution to your symptoms? Don't, don't lump me into like anti-vax or anything, Tom. No, no, no, no, no.

I'm, I'm not, I'm definitely not. But I'm, what I'm saying is like, there's always gonna be the suspicion amongst people that I'm not gonna use the most secure thing because then it's a solved problem. But I think that the issue that we're running into here is that there is so much reticence from the traditional security people to upset any apple cart.

Like remember when NIST came out a couple of years ago with the, the guidance that you shouldn't just change your password every like 60 days because it didn't really matter. It was actually better to keep the same password, just make sure it's, it's kind of strong because constant password changes cost people to wanna jot them down and stuff like that. Do you remember the uproar in the community?

Like there, it was very clear draw on the battle lines. It's like half of everybody's like, yeah, I guess that works because for the reasons they stated and the other group were like, oh my god, no. If you, if your password's older than your underwear, then you, you have to get rid of it.

And like, how can we still disagree on something like that? And, and don't get me wrong, I pass key everything I touch because it is to me the most secure form of providing that. In fact, when something doesn't pop up and offer me a pass key, hello Salesforce, um, I get worried and, and, and, and that kind of goes that hand in hand with things of like, I guess a password dialogue is comforting to people because they're like, oh, I can just tighten the password in.

Or you like, okay, who types their password in anymore? They use a password manager. It's always hard to change, uh, people's workflows.

Uh, you get resistance, you get pushback, and there may be systems in an enterprise that aren't able to support pass keys and then you're working with dual systems and that's a nightmare to manage. Yeah, I think you're a hundred percent spot on, uh, that there is a lot of inertia involved and a it is, as you noted, it's, it's, you know, past keys are very, very important, but not very, very profitable. And you know, as, as you know, I work with a lot of cybersecurity vendors and it's always easy to tout and talk about the shiny new toy, right?

We've got this new thing and that new thing and you know, and we've been doing MFA for a decade now, and MFA is, you know, it's sort of paste now. We don't talk about it, it's just sort of there, it's stable stakes, but we also don't make it mandatory. And, you know, it's, it needs to be, these things need to be, you know, if if the new vendors on the block started with developing a sy their systems by never offering you the choice of passwords and only give you the choice of pass keys that would, we would be better off.

But even the brand new vendors who are cybersecurity vendors still build their SaaS apps with a username and password. And I just think that, you know, that to me, I wish that that was part of the RSA conversation in the community. You know, the, the theme of RSA this year is all about community and bringing people together and, and the, the attackers work as a community, right?

We have all these different cartels that are various groups of people that do things on the attacker side and they coordinate and they cooperate. And it would be really nice if on the vendor side and the defender side, we behaved much more as a real community and said, not only are these best practices that we advise you to do, we're gonna eat our own dog food and we're gonna force you to do it by not allowing you to register for this thing, whatever this thing is. Or we're going to eliminate this.

Here's our phase out plan over time to eliminate passwords from our application. So you better get used to it and get ready for it. We just talked about a couple weeks ago, I think on a packer protector episode about Windows mentioning that, hey, NTLM is eventually gonna go away, right?

And that's been an issue for decades, but because of legacy applications and legacy systems, they have to be very deliberate and very careful in finally getting rid of it. So yeah, it's absolutely just vendor, vendor. I, it's a great point, Jack and I really do wish vendors would eat their own dog food and start to push their customers and the market in that direction.

That would be really fantastic. We could record a whole episode about, uh, sun setting technologies. Like on the one hand you've got Windows who are like, Hey listen for real, before you know, 3000, we are gonna get rid of NTLM.

And on the other hand, you've got companies like Apple who are like, you don't need a floppy drive. And, and, and you, you're always kind of trying to find that comfortable balance of when do I start sun setting technologies versus when do I just jump right out there and say it's gotta go? I, I think that the challenge though is, is that a lot of companies have used some traditional technologies to kind of solve security problems.

And when you sunset those technologies without a clear roadmap to, to basically give them an option to change what they're doing, it causes a lot of friction. It's like, oh yeah, well, you know, you didn't have a mechanism for us to be able to do that through the API back in the day. So like we, we routed it through an SMB one share, and you're like, why on earth would you do that?

Because you're like, well, in the early two thousands it's all we had. And so you, you just, you kind of have to build on things because again, it comes back to the whole, this is a solved problem and I don't need to work on it anymore until it's not a solve problem. Because instead of a better solution coming out, we're getting rid of the solution that you built and, and security people need to get much, much better at that.

So all of my security friends who are out there do not get mad when people move your cheese. Anybody who ever read that book is giggling right now. Alright, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn this around and I'm gonna ask you guys, what, what do you think is your one big prediction for RSA?

Like what, when, when we're recording the post RSA podcast and, and people are talking about, oh, did you see this? Oh, did you see that? What is the one big thing coming out of it that you think is gonna kind of cha change the trajectory or, or further the trajectory of what we're seeing in 2026?

Well, I'll, I'll say that the challenge I have with answering that question is right now, I don't think the vendors are in big picture mode. I don't think they're focused on any one big thing that's gonna change the way we think about the industry. I think everybody right now is in shiny new toy moat is, is come look at me, I've got this cool little thing.

And you know, we've really avoided the topic for a long time, but it's all gonna be about ai. And, and I, I made a challenge to myself last year, and I think it's gonna be even harder this year, which is to walk the conference expo hall, which is gonna have five, 600 vendors in it, and to find the few booths that don't actually have AI plastered all over the booth, right? And they're actually talking about, this is the very specific problem we're solving for you, not we're pasting AI on top of our product.

And for me, that's really the key is now I'm all about AI and understanding the impact of AI for security and how you secure ai, but still, there's a whole lot that happens without AI for a whole lot of enterprises and smaller companies that we need to be thinking about and securing, particularly around identities, identities and the challenges, finding the, those technologies for me, I mean, maybe one good thing that could come out of this focus on AI given, you know, the rise of agentic AI with these, you know, sort of autonomous entities running around doing things, that's an identity and access management problem. And if people think it's big enough, maybe that will help us get our arms around AI identity more broadly, uh, as an industry and a community and help drive some change. For my part, I think what we're gonna see is a lot of companies that are gonna start beating the drum of reduced time to vulnerability exploitation, like, uh, they'll, they'll probably put AI all over it because that's what sells right now.

But, but they're gonna, they're gonna start saying like, if, if something's been reported, just assume that it's already being actively breached. Don't, don't try to hope against hope and and maybe that's gonna solve some of our problems, right? You know, like maybe the technical advisory board has to meet an extra day this month to approve the patches to go out.

Or maybe we start trusting automated deployment systems to do that. But like, I mean, you know, drew, you and I both run weekly news podcasts and oh my god, if we actually just posted all of the vulnerabilities that we did, we could make a podcast out of that. Which by the way is, um, you know, uh, risky Business is a great podcast basically for that.

If, if you, if you wanna go listen to Patrick Gray, but like there are so many things that we have to deal with on a daily basis and it's not like low level stuff. Like these are like, you know, CBSS like nine plus all the freaking time. And I think that we gotta get better about detecting and remediating those things.

And, and if that involves using non-human coworkers to do that, then great. But otherwise, I mean, you know, what can you do? Alright, um, these two gentlemen do a lot of writing.

They do a lot of content creation. I wanna give them an opportunity to tell everyone out there where you can find what they're doing. com or LinkedIn and the usual social sites as well as I do write a column for Security Boulevard.

net. net. You can find me on LinkedIn.

And I'm also on Blue Sky at Drew cm And I produce a lot of security content, not only here at Tech Field Day, but also as part of the Security Boulevard podcast with my cohost Alan Shimmel, Fernando Montenegro and Mitch Ashley. And don't forget that we at Tech Field Day are going to be at RSAC for the first time this year, and we're gonna be getting great presentations from companies like Veeam Object First and Commvault. com, you can see more information about that and I know we're gonna have some great content, both video, audio, and written coming outta that.

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