2025 Tech Horizons: A Forward-Looking Conversation with Futurum CEO Daniel Newman – Predict 2025

Hey, everyone. Welcome back here to our Predict 2025 event. You know, this is, I think, the seventh year that we're doing Predict, and it's always one of the highlights of the year for me because I love to hear smart people talk about what they think is in store for us next year and what we can do around it.

Um, I try to be the least smart person on, on the show, and in years past, it's worked for me, and I think this year definitely is gonna work for me. Um, I couldn't think of a better person to kick off Predict 2025 with than my next guest. He's my partner, uh, CEO of the Futurum Group.

He's on TV a lot, but more than that, he generally is one of those smarter people that I talk about that I, I like to hear what they have to say because that's how I learn and how I kind of internalize and figure things out. So let me introduce you to Daniel Newman. Daniel is the CEO of Futurum Group.

And you know what, again, a great way to kick off 2025 Techstrong is part of Futurum Group, and we are excited by the possibilities and potential. Hey, Daniel, welcome to Predict 2025. It's great to have you on here keynoting and kicking things off for us today.

Alan, it's great to be here with you. I'm so excited for the start of another year. A little bit rested, took a little break, but, uh, not too much of one.

And, uh, you know, we're straight off another hyper intensive year and couldn't be more excited to have techron in into part of the family in the beginning. And Alan, I mean, look, it's not gonna slow down. It is not gonna slow down.

If anything, it's just gonna keep getting faster. I think that's a great tone for the year, right? It's not slowing down the beat goes on, was our, our theme here, and it's not slowing down.

So, Daniel, look, 2024 was a year. It, it was quite a year, right? We, uh, no matter how you wanna slice and dice it from a world history point of view, from the economy point of view, from a technology point of view, there was just, it was just crazy.

I, I think obviously the big story, the, the technology of the year will be Gen AI for 2024. I don't know if that's true for 2025, but before we, you know, if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. Before we jump into 2025, just real quickly, what's your recap for 2024?

What's the big takeaways for you? Yeah, 2024 was a big year of basically taking this technological revolution, this breakthrough, uh, you said generative AI is 24, but generative AI was 22, generative AI was 23, and generative AI was in many ways, 24. But in 24, I think we started to see some breakthroughs in terms of the usability.

We're starting to see the pressure mount on enterprises to adopt, implement, and show results. We're seeing pressure on the software vendors, security vendors, developers, to start to implement the technology into our workflows to show value. You know, we've seen a multi-year run where it's been a very asymmetric, there's been a few companies that have benefited in a massive way because of generative ai.

We all know in late 22, open AI kind of rose into the conscience of the world, um, conscious as well, I guess you could say. In 2023, um, we started to see the semiconductor market really explode because you can't train frontier models and massive large language models without a ton of compute horsepower. And that actually didn't only bring the, you know, the advent of a multi-trillion dollar nvidia, but it really changed the shape of how every chip company and every infrastructure company started thinking about developing products and even building their own semis.

And we'll talk more about that. Um, and then, you know, put all this together, uh, we started to see the kind of flow out where people are like, well, yes, we've seen Nvidia rise to three and a half trillion. We've seen OpenAI raise money at unprecedented, uh, numbers, and who else benefits?

And I spend a ton of my time, Alan, answering that question to the press, to the vendors, um, you know, enterprises, are they adopting it? I remember standing on the rooftop talk, uh, in Davos talking to I-B-M-C-E-O, Arvin Krishna, and, you know, he talked about a $4 trillion economic opportunity. We're seeing numbers now, we're hearing numbers from, uh, firms and the numbers that we're forecasting, it could be 12, 15 or even $20 trillion of economic value that is created.

But this has left us with so many questions, Alan, so many questions. It's questions about, well, if generative AI can do all these tasks that humans do, what does that mean for all of us? Mm-hmm.

Um, answering questions of are the companies that are considered the, uh, you know, the leaders currently, the incumbents currently in certain markets going to remain the incumbents. We've seen disruption over the last two decades in the internet era, in the mobile era, in the social era, and in the cloud era. What does disruption in the generative AI era look like?

We've seen pressures mounting around the world for regulation policy. How are we setting the tone for who gets access to what data? We know there's been controversial, uh, statements, Alan and, and everyone that have been made about, well, how did OpenAI train these models?

We all remember that interview where M Mira Mirati was sitting there and that look that she had knowing or not knowing how to answer that question. And, you know, you step back from OpenAI and you look across the board, who owns the data? What precedent is being set?

What will the legal future look like? And how does this, you know, how does this materialize? And then of course, what we all have come to realize, and this was the 24 inflection, Alan is your personal, private, and enterprise data is actually the real goldmine in opportunity for enter, uh, for generative AI and for the future of ai.

It's not about these large language models that are all using a roughly sane training set. It's about what can you add, what sits in that customer data that you have? What sits in that enterprise data that you've been collecting in your Oracle or SAP or in some other database for multiple decades?

What sits on the devices and inside the business units of intelligent unstructured data sets the thoughts that go around on Zoom meetings and shared in your Slack chats and, uh, content that gets created when smart people to your earlier point, are sitting around the room together and ideating the future of products and services and business. And then how do you take all that, do it safely and compliantly under the right governance and securely while combining it with these language and video and audio models? It's incredible and it's gone so quickly, but I could not be, um, more encouraged that we are gonna continue to make progress that will continue to grow the economy and that the tech industry is right for continued innovation.

What a year, what a time? Uh, 24 is just another great setup year for what I expect to be an exciting 2025. Absolutely.

I couldn't say it better myself. Let me just quickly mention though, as a content publisher, I do worry about all that IP that they've gathered and sucked into their models that we, I paid for here, right? That we've paid for.

You're my partner. We paid for that. They're using it.

We will talk about that off camera. But, um, you know, certainly in some respects, more questions have been created than have been answered around, around all of this. Excitement is 20, 25 a year where we get some answers?

And and where might we get, you know, what might some of those answers be, Daniel? Well, I think as you see technological revolutions moving this quickly, you're never gonna quite get to the point where the questions stop coming, right? We have questions right now about how do we discern good and bad information, right and wrong information.

How do we even, how do we even judge that? Uh, we've seen massive risk, uh, created in a world where algorithms have replaced sort of, you know, open prioritization of information where we really don't even know as people anymore. If the information that's being fed to us is the right information.

We have to deal with everything from, you know, what is the stance and lean that might come from a certain publisher in terms of then understanding how content is then derived. And then you have the aggregators and distributors of content, the social platforms that basically most of us use. I mean, very few of us anymore get a, get a newspaper dropped off in our front door and sit down and read the paper.

And in that case, you have to even look under the cover of each, each publisher, each writer to understand positioning and how, and so this is kind of a microcosm of the world that we live in, Alan, is that everything right now that we are looking at is being changed in the era of ai. So we like summaries, summaries help us, but deciding which summary is the correct summary, and then using that to point a worldview, that's, that's powerful stuff. And that can shape and that can, you know, that can shape and shift an industry, a business, uh, political landscape.

It could change a, you know, it could change so many different things at one time. And so, you know, I started to allude to this in the end of my kind of look back and, you know, for those out there that are in the business community that are kind of assessing all of the technology that's at your fingertips and deciding what road to go down, um, I think this'll be the year where we start to see the scale and the availability and democratization of this technology become much more, um, available to businesses of all sizes and shapes, uh, because of these multi-network effects. And so, let me tell you what what I mean by that.

So I kind of started talking about how we saw this explosion of semiconductor valuations and growth. Gotta put the compute in place. So you have the companies like Nvidia building, you, you have cloud providers like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon Oracle investing.

But at that point, that's just basically, if you think about it through the lens of a plant built to make automotive, automotive, uh, automobiles, that's like a plant. They built their plants. Now everybody's gotta say, what kind of car do we wanna build here?

Do we wanna build a truck? Do we wanna build an SUV? Do we wanna build a a motorcycle?

Um, are we gonna build shape spaceships? What are we gonna build in this factory? And so this is that next stage.

So we've got this investment in the cloud providers. You've got infrastructure companies like Dell and Lenovo and all these companies and, and, and, and HPE that are building infrastructure, putting 'em in these tier two tier ones. Um, they're standing up, they're building their own silicon.

But then it's how does this get implemented? And so we have actually seen companies like Accenture explode and into this year, they're exploding because basically most companies, most CEOs like you out there and like me, we're sitting there, we're going, how do we get this stuff done? It's like, it's great that I bought some instances of GPUs or it's great, but I gotta train.

I gotta implement libraries. I gotta, I gotta develop software. I've got, well, in this year, what's gonna start to change is the software that we all use every day.

If you're using HubSpot for marketing, if you're using Salesforce for CRM, if you're using Oracle or SAP for your ERP, we're gonna see, and we've heard, don't get me wrong, it's not like these companies have done nothing, but we are going to see this next revolution in 2025. We've heard, uh, CEO of Salesforce, mark Benioff talk about agents. We've heard the infrastructure companies talking about agents.

We're gonna start to see this evolution from assistance and AI that's used to sort of make some predictive to more and more intelligent multi-use case agentic AI that es essentially can become tens, hundreds, or thousands of workers that can do task specific things concurrently at the same time. They're gonna get smarter. And these systems, this is gonna be stuff that you will be able to originate from the software that you use every day, whether it's ServiceNow, whether it's Workday, you're gonna be able to originate and you're gonna orate and you're gonna be able to get these things to do.

You know, I always like to use my example of planning a business trip. Here's a real simple one for everyone out there. You know, historically speaking, if you wanted to plan a business trip, there was 7, 8, 9 different levers.

You're pulling, you're trying to find your flights, you're trying to find availability on your calendar, you're trying to figure out what a hotel you're gonna stay at. You're trying to navigate all the different meetings you want to have while you're there. Um, and you're, and you're trying to pull all these things together.

Well, not right now, you have to kind of do these things asynchronously, but at the same time trying to coordinate them. And even if you have like an assistant, there's still many, many things all at play. But imagine an agent that could actually understand your, your, your travel preferences.

They could say, Hey, I know Alan, that you like to fly on American Airlines. You like an aisle seat and you always wanna upgrade to premium economy. So right then and there, you could send the agent out to figure out what travel is available for that period of time.

You could have another agent saying, Hey, I know while you're in New York City, you wanna meet with this kind of subset of customers. It knows which customers are based there. It knows which customers are your biggest and most important.

It can actually know which ones you've maybe recently met with. It could see which ones you might need to follow up with, and it could arbitrate, arbitrate between all these different things. And then basically reach out on a priority basis to customers with a very simple, Hey, I'm gonna be in New York.

Here's what my plan days. Start to aggregate smart emails, smart messaging even knows which channel to send that message in. This customer wants a text, this one likes so on.

So WhatsApp, this is the type of intelligence we can move towards. And then it could say, Hey, based on my meeting schedule, where should I have a hotel? Where should that hotel be placed?

Um, because obviously, you know, I mean, you're a New Yorker, Alan, um, it's very different getting from uptown to downtown, not downtown, everywhere in between your, your entire week can be better or worse depending on where you planted yourself. Um, and then what about booking reservations for a meal? You wanna take a customer to dinner, you wanna, you know, you, you don't wanna be in New York with no plan.

You don't wanna be wandering around and it could figure all this out. And then what it could do is these things can all work together in a coordinated fashion and come back to you and give you a really, really airtight or close to airtight agenda. Could you do that yourself?

Absolutely. But imagine if you wanted to send 70 emails to get seven meetings set up. I mean, how much time is your team, your assistant, you, depending on your staffing gonna spend and then figure out the flights, figuring out the hotel, figuring out the food, figuring out the meeting, by the way, even setting up meeting agendas, pulling all that pre-work.

Where's the he health and, and, and success and recent issues with the customer having the dossiers prepared for you? All this can be done with a Gentech ai. And this is just one example.

That's That's just planning a business trip, right? Who, who trip? Think about what we, yeah, what else it could do.

This could Be supply chain planning, this could be HR resource, uh, planning this ly. And so this is ly this is this pivotal inflection a where we're going from a world where everything is done and even assistance can do one thing at a time, to having the ability to have these really helpful automations, these agents that are working in parallel for you with all this information to make your life better and to enable cusp companies to be exponentially more productive. So Daniel, let me ask you some hard question on this.

Now though, you know, i, i I don't like hard questions. Let's go back to easy questions. I, I read an interview about Benioff talking about these, what does he call an agent force or whatever they're calling it.

They're gonna hire 2000 salespeople to sell agent force and the, you know, he's a great salesperson, a great marketer, but the reason he is doing it is he's scared to death. He's scared to death that this will could be the, the, the death nail, if you will, for Salesforce, because a lot of what his present product helps us manage day to day, but doesn't actually do for you will be done perhaps by these agents. So anytime you have disruption like this, it's, it's like, Hey, there's a new, there's room for a new growth in the forest, right?

We have some new, new trees coming up in 2025. I I think one of the questions we face is, is it the Salesforce, Amazons the same old, same olds, the same old, you know, show guns who control the, the, the territory who will lead on this? Or do we have room for some new growth?

Will there be the, the next Nvidia, the next Salesforce, the next AWS that, or that comes out of this opportunity? Yeah, that's a really thoughtful question, Alan. It's, it's, you know, the great thing about it is, no matter how I answer it, I'm gonna probably be, that's why I say it was a hard question.

But the, the, the fact is, is I think I can give some sort of macro perspectives on the question. I think first and foremost, there are gonna be, you know, there of the rise of new companies has a lot more to do with the regulatory environment, the ability for m and a activity to take place, um, the success and, uh, opportunism of VCs and capital allocators. And then of course, um, you know, these things all come together to kind of make determinations of how long companies remain independent and run after trying to compete into new markets versus how early they maybe get acquired versus which go IPO.

We all know the last several years have been really terrible, IPO environments. So very few companies have gone public. We also know the last few years have been really tough for m and a.

So most larger m and a deals have not really materialized, um, higher, you know, without getting too into the e economics, because I know this is a tech event, but like higher interest and, um, higher inflation leads to a, a tougher, um, you know, discounted cash flow model. So private equity companies are a little bit more cautious in what they buy for, and then companies are a little bit more cautious to grow. But of course, none of these rules apply to the mega cap tech companies.

And I, and I say this with no cynicism, I have the utmost respect for Jensen Wong. I know him very well, I know him personally. Satya, these, these people have done amazing work, built amazing companies that have durability, um, beyond be in, in, and in many ways, they seem to be beyond reproach now.

Ha, having said that, I mean, there, there is some, some other sides and some things that I, i, let me just first say as a techno optimist, um, Alan, I'm super hopeful to see more breakthrough companies that disrupt le legacy industries, um, and disrupt current innovators. Uh, I'm, I'm concerned about how realistic that is. If I'm being, uh, Frank, I'm very close to these companies.

I'm very close to this technology. Um, first of all, the balance sheets of these companies is larger than many global economies. So they have the money to basically identify any sort of threat to their longevity and, and, and can acquire.

Um, they're very creative companies. Over the last year, one of the trends of 24 was creative deal making that allowed companies to effectively, uh, acquire businesses that probably never would've been acquired via regulatory, but because, um, of creative mechanisms, they were able to to, to do deals to get IP control. We've all seen and heard some of what Satya Nadela from Microsoft has, has said about the relationship with OpenAI.

And we then saw one of the most significant rounds of capital in history raised at a valuation of over $160 billion for a company that's losing $5 billion a year. So this is indicative to me of how important the end that the technology is, but it's also indicative of how, uh, exuberant in some ways the market is. And of course, just like Bitcoin or any other sort of, um, highly speculative asset class, um, things are worth what someone's willing to pay.

And when the most valuable capital allocators in the world say it's worth 160 billion, they all put their money in, then chances are it's probably gonna be end up being worth a lot more. So what does that leave? Well, I mean, you've seen some really exciting companies like Palantir come in and break through, um, winning and changing potentially the entire shape of government contracts for, for technology.

That's something that I think we all need. We know that that system is, is at, at at best, um, you know, flawed and at worst completely broken in terms of how government contracts are issued. Will this fix it?

I mean, that's TBD or is it just an, it will just become a new, um, sort of racket in how that stuff gets done? Um, you know, I do believe I will make a prognostication that I do believe that, um, companies like Meta and NVIDIA will enter the hyperscale cloud business. I think that that will make the big seven.

I mean, we already know XAI is, we won't call it, it's not Tesla, but XAI is a startup that has the backing of a Mag seven and, and Elon Musk. But they will also enter be, because I think the next era we've went from 2021 was a CPU era. We're in the GPU and accelerated computing era.

And now you have companies like Meta, um, that have built mega data centers for their own utilization that could easily be, and they built lama, they built open source models. You think about all the compute, all the platform and code that they built for lama, why would they not enable businesses? It's been a, an issue where a company like never been able to fully break through.

And then of course, you look at a company like Nvidia and their biggest partners are all set to become their biggest competitors. That's just the track that it's on. And so if you're Nvidia, you're saying, well, we've already built a cloud with a fully, uh, integrated enterprise solution in nim.

Um, and not to get too technical, but they have a fully integrated library frameworks compute, uh, container system that you can basically run all this AI on. If the data centers, um, and the big hyperscale cloud providers decide that they're going to maybe lead more with their own compute, um, of course Nvidia would be in the right to, uh, more meaningfully move to a situation in which their cloud could be consumed by customers. And of course, with their balance sheet, they could do anything they want.

So, you know, roughly anything they want. So I'll leave you with this thought on that question 'cause it's a great one, Alan, is, it's very difficult if you're a small technology company to break through and compete at the, at the very, very top levels. I expect more m and a, I expect more investment consolidation in certain industries, but I do expect these MEG seven companies, and I do expect, especially in an era where I, I believe there will be less regulation and there will be more, um, exuberance that these companies will have the chance to get bigger and stronger over the next four years.

And it is tied to the current political climate. Um, having said that, this is where I always say, uh, competition and, uh, antitrust are conflicted because antitrust should be about enabling competition, which right now it's very hard to pair that behavior with the desire to limit or to reduce consumer harm because consumers like their Apple experience. They like the integration of Google, they like meta applications that work con you know, consistently with each other.

They like ad platforms that are, uh, very data-driven, that are connected all the way from interaction with the content to the purchase cycle. So you have this kind of conflicting, it's not the mabell any days anymore, Alan. It's not, you know, one company.

So harm and competition are not gonna be spurned. So another thing I guess I'll predict, we need some real reform in antitrust to enable competition without squashing the experiences that we have all become so fond of. There's also strategic, I mean, speaking as a US citizen here, right?

The strategic consequences of if these are world beater companies, you don't want to squash that with, with regulation or antitrust type of activity. And we're, and we, you know, we source some noise of that. Daniel, we, we have maybe five, seven minutes left.

I want to turn, I want to turn to something else though. You know, as great as 2024 was, and as exciting and exuberant is the word you used exuberance as it was for our friends in the tech industry. And you and I, we have a lot of friends in the tech industry.

It was a year of unprecedented pain in terms of layoffs and job cuts. And you know what, I, I still know plenty of people who've been out of work now for months. Good talented people.

Um, now whether you believe the Department of Labor, uh, stats about what our true unemployment is, I saw an interesting article, I dunno if it was in the journal or the times that it's kind of misleading because we saw a lot of people hopping around jobs in 2024 to keep up with inflation, actually, right? They, they couldn't make a go out of it at their old jobs, so they went to a new job and that counted as, you know, moving towards it. But for our tech workers out there, it's been a tough 2024 for the most part, for many of them anyway.

What do you think? 2025. You're an optimist, so I'm hoping it's gonna be optimistic, but give, give my, give my folks some something of a life raft here to jump on.

Daniel, what do you think? There's a couple of things that I I'll say about what to look for ahead. I, I will actually agree with you about 24.

There's been a lot of layoffs in tech and the quiet conversations, the stuff that I always say the quiet part said out loud is that a lot of tech companies are implementing this technology and they're finding efficiencies. You know, you have the extremes. You have the Elon Musks and hock tans that can cut 50 or 75% of a workforce and get EBITDA growth, profit growth, growth, growth, growth mm-hmm.

Profit growth. Um, and then you have other companies that have been a little bit more quiet about it, you know, where you've seen, I saw a report just this week. Companies like Google and Microsoft, big successful companies that have met numbers, expanded earnings, they're darlings of Wall Street, and yet they're employment numbers are somewhere around the same level as 2019.

To me, this is kind of, it's a, it's a testament to how well some of the technology works. It's indicative of the fact that companies can be, uh, over overweight on, on, on employees and not implementing and utilizing them well enough. It's also signaled to me of something that, um, I think we all should be paying attention to.

And that's, you know, the continued growth and upskill that we all have in our careers. I think, you know, whether it's been remote work, it's been easy to become a little complacent. Um, you know, the rapid and tectonic shifts that are going on in, in technology itself is, are you staying up to date?

Are you keeping yourself valuable to the, to the organization? And of course, um, you know, I also think that the, you know, evolution of our roles is gonna change. And, and I think I've always said that like, people that are really comfortable with change are gonna always do fine.

And, and this is probably, you know, some people out there, especially people out there that maybe don't feel great about change. You're probably gonna look at me and start throwing tomatoes at the screen, and that's okay. But what I've found in, in, in my career is that there are, there's kind of be kind of, it's like a, it's like a playwright.

There's gonna be multiple acts in your life and in your career and in a business. Um, Alan, before we came together, you've had many acts, we've talked about them. I've had different acts in my career, and the business changes.

And you know, as a, as a, you know, the future and group as a company that's successfully doubled in size every year since its inception, um, no two years have looked the same. Priorities have changed. And by the way, your ability to sort of look at maybe something you're doing and saying this is the past, and being able to say, now this is the future.

That, that desire to hold on too long, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're an executive at a tech company, whether you're a practitioner inside of a tech company out there, that desire to hold onto long puts you at risk. Will generative AI eliminate every programmer? No.

But will it eliminate some? Absolutely. Will AI change the role of a CISO or a security leader?

Absolutely. Uh, we should get to the point where, uh, you know, everyday threats that used to be harder to detect and earlier, you should be able to get ahead of it. It'll also make the nation states, uh, budget, budget supported bad actors.

It'll make them better too. So the pressure will be on you if you are leading a company, is it your job to figure out how to implement AI and put it to work for the benefit of the company? Absolutely.

Now, again, if we can gain $20 trillion of economic growth because of this technological evolution that's going on, then there will be new roles. You know, I wrote a book called, um, uh, human Machine. I forgot my own book title.

You know, one of the things that we looked at was, you know, if you remember back in the day, you know, by the way, this is, it'll make you laugh, laugh. But, you know, we use the term gaslighting a lot. And you know, it actually kind of the term goes back to the day that people used to have their job used to be to go up and down the streets, lights and light lamps, lights mm-hmm.

At night. And they were told, you know, uh, basically the idea that electricity would eliminate all the jobs in the future. Now again, have, we had not seen the economy grow by thousands and thousands of times since that point.

But whether it's been the assembly line, whether it's been the advent of the internet, we've heard it every revolution, there's this fear that it's gonna eliminate every job, and then there's been a boom. Now, having said that, is AI different? Absolutely.

But does that mean everyone's job goes away? Absolutely not. Does it mean you need to be dynamic?

It needs to be constantly thinking about your skillset and changing. Does it need, you need to be consistently learning and, and, you know, I'll, I'll say this, and you know, I've been accused of being slightly paranoid at times, but that old phrase about people that are, uh, successful in, in business and and in life, that only the paranoid survive. I think being a little paranoid right now is okay.

Mm-hmm. And I think if you're a little concerned about your job and its longevity, you should be thinking about where do you add skills? If you're concerned about how your company stays competitive, you should be looking at new technologies.

And how does it change the game? This is all here for you. I mean, the thing is, is it's, it is pretty democratized.

It's super available, whether it's touching, you know, and, and, and using LLMs, a lot of them are free. Whether it's using tools. I mean, heck, you can go to a MOOC and you know, mooc, I know people don't use that word, but you can take any class that MI teaches online, MIT teaches online for free.

The desire to continuously learn and be part of this shift will put you in a great position. But don't get me wrong, um, it is a time of massive change. Those that embrace it, I think will do really, really well.

And I wish all of you great success in 2025. Daniel, thank you. I got one more question for you and we'll wrap it, I promise you.

One more. Okay. Okay.

A little self-serving. I, I have invested interest now too. What's your prediction for Futurum Group in 2025?

So, my, my plan, my genuine belief is that in an era where there is exponential information available at our fingertips, who says it will become equally, if not more important than what is said. So now in an era where we can put a prompt into A GPT and it can create a, an article, we wanna know who writes it, why it's valid, all that is formulated. So we have put a lot of muscle into making sure that we can quantify our, our, our, our foresight that we can provide great inputs to the IT and technology vendors that we support.

And then of course, that we can create content that really helps synthesize a lot of info. So you heard my last, uh, you know, ramble about what to look ahead to. You know, people need to know, can we trust the information that's put in front of us in this era?

I believe that Futurum can become one of the perennial, one of the most valuable sources of meaningful information about the tech industry and what the future looks like for tech. And that we will have the analysts, we will have the distribution, we will have the technology and tools to, to cross the chasm, Alan, from the empirical, the data that sets the markets, the testing and the performance. We do all this to the most ephemeral, which is which podcast you listen to, which platform you read it on, and how you make sure that you out there stay ahead of the curve and connected to the innovation that's taking place right before our eyes.

I love it. Hey man, Daniel, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

I hope everyone out here appreciates it. Here's to a great 2025, check it out. The Futurum Group Techstrong, it's all part of one family.

And thank you for joining us here. We've got a tremendous, uh, schedule of sessions here at Predict 2025. So if you like Daniel and and his session here, stay tuned.

We've got more smart people coming your way, but we're out.