Shahar Fogel, Rookout | KubeCon + CloudNativeCon NA 2022

This is Textron TV. Hey, welcome back to kubecon 2020 in Detroit City Motor City. We're having a great time.

I'm filling in for Allen. He's stepped away to refresh and get retool here. And so I have the pleasure of being joined by shaharfogle from Roca.

Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me great to have you here.

You know, we talked to Valencia enjoy chatting with each other and I'm sure a lot of things have changed we'll get into that. Let folks know about who you are and also look at us cool. So my name is Shao.

I'm the CEO of workout. Basically, what we do is developed a platform for developer. First of ability, basically giving observability capabilities to developers in the way and in the places, they're used to getting the data from and enabling them to solve issues much faster to understand what's going on in their remote environments and a click of a button without the need to write code without really deployment and even in production.

So actually solving production for issues much faster around five times faster than they Today and you know giving them reducing the the frustration of debugging or or issue Resolution For Engineers themselves and a shift left for observability exactly right to production. Yeah, and eventually, you know, everyone is telling the story, you know, even the bigger players that are built great products for Ops people, you know, they know that their growth engines are the developers shift left and everyone's talking about it. It's driving adoption within organizations both decisions and usage.

So, you know, we aim to give them the capabilities again for it for them and not for you know, taking Ops and sres products and trying to push it towards the developers. It's kind of a big thing to try to bolt on to a developers IDE or development environment, you know, nothing is easy yet. That's why we hear So tell me a little bit about what's the different about the observability when you're early in the software process from a developer's perspective.

What do they want that maybe not as important when you're all the way in production or what are the commonalities? So I think it's very much related to to the cloud native world. You know Cloud native is kind of changed the world the way you you manage software the way you distribute the way you Monitor and and do everything around that but eventually kind of Engineers have been left behind and and the change that that happened in industry is also you know, the way that software is being developed has been changed.

Not only maintained. So the engineers in their day to day, you know, the notion of it works on. My machine is dead.

Even throughout the software development life cycle. They are operating in remote environments and you know Dev QA staging wherever they are where they have their kubernetes clusters or you know containers serverless whatever and they have kind of similar challenges to production there. They really have to redeploy every time they want to test something if they want to add new logs or metrics and traces 3 deployment really depends not only compiling and checking it on their own machine.

So that's kind of you know, what we've seen over the last few years that that the challenges and that their day to day on what they're spending time. And where is their kind of bottlenecks and in their operation has changed and this is kind of what we aim to help them with. It's probably not the best solution to run for Prometheus in your Dev environment.

Try to do distributed tracing and figure out what's happening. Yeah, that's that's difficult a little bit of a heavyweight make great solution for other environments, but tell us a little bit. I know you had some analysis for kubecon.

Tell us what's happening Yeah. So basically, you know, what we always aim to do is to shift left and to give developers the Both the data they need in terms of more. You know, we have the live debugger.

We have the livelogger. We're adding metrics and and all sorts of capability in terms of what we give them but also the how and the how is very important and we've seen it we can talk about in a second but we've seen it that developers, you know, we have our web ID that you know, as a full platform we can do everything in terms of real estate within the browser but sometimes developers as we know developers likes to consume products and various different ways. So we have of course our web UI and just released our ID plugin for the IntelliJ families for the jetbrain's family.

So IntelliJ and go Lang and and these types of ideas that will enable them to use and consumer workout from within the ID so putting the non-breaking points there whether it's production all the way to the end, you know, you can you can instrument production directly from your ID but also through as I mentioned before also throughout the software development life cycle, so, you know, even if you have your Dev environment, which is a distributed, It's not that far but it's half far and the deployment time is not three hours but 20 minutes every time you have to add a new log line. It's that's 20 minutes going. You have a coffee 20 minutes going I talk to your friend.

So this is you know, you're using Rook out. You don't have to redeploy all the time. It just press the button within a millisecond.

You can add the log or the metric that you want. And you know, that's kind of the more of the productivity play the velocity of development the quality of development their ability to to leverage the new types of infrastructure that exists out there but not feeling the pains that it brings with it for them. Yeah, very familiar with Jeff Branson in the Nutella Jay Etc by charm all the other ID environments.

It seems like I mean the more you can make a tool operate in the way that developers already familiar with, you know, they know they know how to do, you know stops the steps through code and do testing exactly but then their Ides and their local environment. So how would that look in an idea to the developer if they plugged in Rook out? What would just pop up?

What would show how would they interact just as the they're used to using normal breakpoints? You know, they have the lines they're marking the point. So they're a market the point and they'll have kind of two rows.

When is the normal break? When's the workout break point and they place that you know, they can of course slice and dice which environments they want to collect the data from like like a normal platform, whether it's production pre-production, you know, a single part or 10,000 pods. They can have conditional break points.

You can have great limiting it or or context understanding for For what they want to collect customized log lines, whatever. Very much similar to the experience that they have in addition, of course to you mentioned, you know how they like to use it apis and CLI capabilities to enable them to automate to enable it to you know to geek out and and and use and leverage the value that we bring in, you know any way that they want. Yeah, all your all your messages right there command line if you want to jump in that way.

Yeah great. So how do people get a hold of that is that to have to buy subscription to it is just downloadable and from the idea was you know, as most you're gonna make some money when we know too we are making money. Thank God, but but eventually, you know, we have a Community Edition they can go they can download it's free, you know with license restrictions that sorts but you know afterwards if they want to increase if they want company-wide adoption, they can contact us and We'll find a way to work together.

Very cool. So tell us about the show. I mean, so what's interesting.

I'm having more conversations about developer productivity engineering productivity. Times are getting tight. People need to get the most out of their resources and you know developers have kind of move from or IIT, you move from sort of the back office to this part of our business strategy.

We got to deliver code capabilities to software and cloud cloud native and that that seems to be one of the big drivers around why there's such an interest around developer for activity. Do you see it from an individual developer? I want to be more productive.

There's more driven by development managers engineering efficiency things like that. I think both first of all, you know, Engineers wants to spend their time writing code or writing bugs or writing features, but you know, whatever they're writing, but they know to deliver value to the organization. They don't like debugging they don't like to deal with stuff which is not actually a writing business logic between tools and environments and exactly.

So, you know, we give it to them we reduce, you know, the time that they spend on things that they don't like significantly and, you know eliminate waiting. Amor deployment times or context switching which within their day to day? So, you know that's that's an individual level organizational level.

Of course, you know, first of all, you know, every every company wants to be productive everyone a company wants to improve themselves. But as you mentioned, you know times are tough. We're seeing it within it yesterday with some big companies reports and and plunging in the stock market, but but eventually everyone is feeling it, you know, the the VC space and the investment in our space and you know where we're a year ago, we would have talked to clients in terms of sales processes, you know, it was only production and customers and meantime resolution and that kind of messaging around it today kind of shifted and everyone looking at cost and everyone looks at unit economics and everyone looks suspend and you know some layoffs and reductions and these types of elements which brings back kind of How can I squeeze more out of my engineering dollars?

How can I do more with less which is kind of the goggles for the engineering managers or the higher up management, which is kind of in addition, of course to the production value, which is always there for, you know, we enable them, you know on a scale you save an engineer an hour a day or two hours a day times x amount of Engineers that you know. That can multiply to a huge amount and you know in the past as when you know money was cheap last year or you know, what happened happened in the market, you know, you wanted more out of your engineering team these Rose from three four more people to the fire and you'll get it today. It's not like that today.

It's like hard to find those people right? I mean you can but it's hard to find and it's hard to pay. Yeah, they don't want to experience.

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what we're hearing from client from from my clients that work out kind of gives superpowers even to Junior Engineers. So, you know do all the older the more experienced Engineers.

They know what they're doing. They know how they call code looks they know how the applications behaving someone you joins any has no idea and you know, just by reading the code, you know, you can understand anything. So we give him the ability to you know, sit with workout, you know, kind of debugger and understand what's going on in production and real production not staging not seen your relations of the application.

Closer environment. No, it's like reducing the the ramp up time super significant. Now the plugin for IDs that's available today.

That's on our website. Cool. Stop by and see it sounds pretty cool.

I'll run over and take a look. Well good, you know, it's interesting, you know since Valencia a lot more people have been more comfortable coming out. I think I mean bless you as well attended and it was great to see so many developers t-shirts backpacks walking around flag.

That's my people. Hey, yeah and here, you know also too really well attended. It seems like people are taking more time to have deeper conversations.

Yeah. They're coming by booze or stopping in here. I think right now is sort of the time to Stand and Deliver.

We got to got a ship code right? We moved to the cloud. We invested in Cloud native.

We've done these things. You know now we have to live with it tough. Now we have to live with it, you know to maintain it to continue develop new features to you know to a lot of big Enterprises needs to modernize themselves a lot of new challenges out there.

Very cool. Well, hope you continue to have a good show. Thank you.

Great to talk with you again Shahar and good luck with the rest of kubecon and we will see an Amsterdam or whatever the next couple right? Yes April. Yeah.

We're trying to figure out a logistics already how we're gonna do that another show figure it out. So we'll get there. All right, man.

Thank you very much. Hey, thanks for stopping by here. Be sure to check them out.

com. Okay, perfect. Definitely check it out, but we're having lots of conversation about developer for activity and thank you some of the barriers and things that are getting in the way to help folks be able to ship codes.

So don't go away. We're gonna be right back with some more great interviews just like with sharp, so we'll be here. We'll see you in a minute.