Unlocking Web and Mobile App Development – Prasanth Reddy, Wavemaker

This is Textron tv. Well, the great pleasure being joined today by Prashant Reddy. Prashant is Senior Director of Product Management with Wavemaker.

Welcome. Thank you, Mitch. Glad to be here.

Good to be talking with you. We're gonna talk about low code. Before we get there, would you just do an introduction, tell us a little bit about you, and also tell us about Wavemaker.

Sure, sure. I can. Yeah.

My name is Prashant. Uh, like you said, I'm a senior director at Wavemaker. I run the product management.

Um, my career has been in building products in, uh, developer productivity and social collaboration space. I started building, um, uh, for, uh, application servers. Um, that's how I started, um, as a software engineer.

And then, um, built, uh, an enterprise social collaboration tool that got acquired by Autodesk. So I went on to work there, uh, build the collaboration into their CAD tools that were targeted towards, uh, manufacturing industry, and now at Wavemaker, uh, building a, a low-code tool for professional developers, um, so that they can build web and mobile applications quickly. You know, I, I think, not to reach too far back, but I, I, I remember thinking earlier in my career, the first low-code tools were probably Excel spreadsheets, maybe VisiCalc or something with macros, right?

I remember people building just like, Yeah, Somewhat surprising applications, right? Using a, a just a spreadsheet kind of tool. And now, of course, we're well beyond that with, uh, low-code tools that are available to people.

But it brings up the topic of when citizen developers build applications. You know, they're not, they're not software developers, nor do we want them to be. But also you can kind of get started down to a path and get yourself, um, into a very complex situation, maybe with some issues that get tougher to solve by not kind of knowing, um, you know, how, how to build those in a structured way or in a way that's gonna be manageable.

Uh, share your thoughts on what can we do to help people, uh, as they build applications, low-code apps, um, to give them a leg up on those kind of issues. Yeah, I think, uh, like you said, uh, we've been building applications. Uh, the, the demand for automation and creating apps has always been there.

And I think, uh, when people work at the right level of abstraction, uh, that sits well with them, they're able to accomplish the task that they, or automation that they want to create. And especially for business users that don't have a professional experience of building or coding, that could be quite challenging. And I believe that, uh, I think they can be enabled, but at the right abstraction level, um, that that works for them.

Um, but wave at Wavemaker though, we've been focused on building a tool, uh, targeted towards professional developers, because we think that the demand that is there for automation and app creation, if we address that, if we enable that community of professional developers, uh, by enhancing their productivity or, and sometimes skills, then they're able to unlock a bandwidth that, that addresses that need, um, better. But, but there's no, uh, if there's someone out there, there's an idea, has an idea, and they don't have a professional, uh, training, formal training in, uh, software creation, you know, they can go ahead and create, use the tools that they have to convert that idea to, to see it, to come to life. Uh, but, but one, one of the things that you wanna keep in mind is that it's not just about the version one, right?

Mm-hmm. You can create the product or create, create the first version of the idea, but then what happens when, uh, when you, when you go past that and you wanna make it, uh, when you wanna make it secure, when you want to scale it, uh, and are you equipped to deal with requests for enhancements? Um, can you grow it?

Uh, because unless you tend to, uh, that the whatever you are creating, uh, you have to keep keep at it, right? Otherwise, um, people can get frustrated because they don't, they don't have what they want. Um, so it's not just about just creating the first version, but it's also about are you able to move past that and, and in a sustainable way, can you do that?

Um, um, over a period of time? And this is not just the, uh, the concept of, uh, citizen developers or business users, uh, being able to create, uh, automate things is not just only outside, it's, it happens inside enterprise, big companies as well, but mostly that is because there's a lot of demand that is not yet met. So, you know, out of, out of frustration or, uh, for the lack of, uh, access, somebody just picks up the bat and just takes the initiative to use a tool that that is available to, to create something.

Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, Yeah, it is op there are a lot of opportunities for that, right? Credit card and a web browser.

You can get access to a lot of, to low-code capabilities. Then you bring up a really good point. I know in the software world, the traditional software development world, I've learned that the real, the, the hard part is maintaining, enhancing and running what you create, not the first version or the first couple of versions.

That's where the real cost is. So I'm always, you know, thinking about, is this worth writing code for? 'cause we're gonna have to maintain it, upgrade it, update it, et cetera.

In, in the low-code world, some what I've observed is, um, end users, citizen developers can kind of get themselves into a corner where maybe it gets too complex, or the person who created it isn't there anymore, they moved on to the next job, or that's become so much of their job. We didn't hire them to be a, an IT developer, essentially, that's what they've become. I'm curious from your perspective, your experience, what are the things that sort of cross that over into, now I need to go to a professional developer, or this is something a professional developer would be better equipped to do to compliment what citizen developers might, might do themselves?

Yeah. Um, I think the collaboration between a business user and a professional developer is needed to, um, so you need to be able to translate what you have in your mind, uh, over to professional developers so that they can, they can continue, uh, developing it. And I think, um, low-code tools can be used by professional developers.

Uh, like I said, uh, they can get done faster time to, you know, they can get done with a product that they're developing faster. And they can also, sometimes, um, the professional developers may not have all the skill sets needed, um, so the low-code tools can enhance and give them a leg up in the area that, uh, they may not have, uh, the skill sets in. So, um, yeah, I think, uh, I mean, my experience of, of having our customers use Wavemaker, we, we've enabled them to create web applications, mobile applications of varying complexities, uh, within software product companies, as well as enterprise IT teams.

And it's always been, uh, collaborating with either the design teams or the business analysts on your team, uh, who writes up the specification or, you know, creates a Figma design. Um, and then that gets translated into an application. So Mm-hmm.

Which is extremely important. I mean, I think many people would be surprised how many professional developers maybe they're in, in it, um, are using low-code tools. It's not just for end users.

Matter of fact, that's what you're cater catering to, correct. More of the professional developer using low-code capabilities. That's right.

Yeah. And, you know, because like our insight has been that, uh, given the right abstraction, the productivity gains, uh, are going to come. And with waymaker, um, not only do you get access to our UI widget library, but we enable our customers to build their own abstractions, um, which we call them prefabs.

Um, coming from a borrowing from a construction industry where, you know, uh, prebuilt modular components are used to cut down the car, the time it takes to build something. So we, we borrowed that term into software development, and they make a lets of customers build prefabs that they can just reuse, uh, in multiple applications that they then develop. So then, you know, you only do it, do this prefab, develop that in once, one, one time, and then, then you are able to reuse that, and that gives you a greater productivity boost.

Um, and it also gives you a way to, um, codify certain, uh, requirements that you may have from your design team or from your, uh, experience teams. So you don't have to keep doing that again and again, because one of the things that I've noticed, uh, Mitch, is that one of the, you know, as you start developing the app, right, it's the last 10%, the fit and finish that takes the maximum amount of time, right? Mm-hmm.

So the more you are able to, uh, reduce that and able to, uh, especially for professional developers, right? We're, we're talking about an application that they're building, and, uh, they have design teams that they're, they're reviewing it with. So, uh, fit and finish and con, you know, conforming to design guidelines that they're internally, um, uh, equipped, uh, you know, challenged with is very important.

Um, and using a low code that lets them do that is, is extremely important. When thinking about, you mentioned the last 10%, you know, being, being the hardest part. Mm-hmm.

Profess professional developers know, there's things like the localization, multi-language support, you're gonna have to do performance, you know, scaling, performance testing, um, maybe even usability testing, interfacing to other applications. So it is a long list of, you know, what a professional developer would need and expect from a platform as well as, you know, how do I deploy this thing in production? How do I update it?

All, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And that's where, that, to me, that's the difference between a tool and a platform, right?

Right. Where a tool might help you create something like a WordPress tool, right? But how do you deploy something that's just as a simple example, but then how do you actually manage a full application deployed into production?

And are there sort of low-code ways to do that? I think that's where your, your sweet spot is. Am I, am I on path here?

Yeah. And yeah, you're right. And I think whenever you create an application, especially the professional developers, you know, when you, when you give them a tool like low code, there is a, there's an apprehension, right?

Oh, is it gonna create code the way I would write it? Or, or is it, is it gonna be, am I gonna be able to manage it? And what if it starts, uh, what if the, the, my application gets used by, you know, many people, am I going to be able to scale it or am I gonna be charged when, when it starts taking off and, and I want to scale it?

Do I have to pay more? Um, you know, what are the costs involved here, right? Am I, um, what are the hidden, you know, are there any hidden costs?

Um, so there are things that otherwise you won't have to consider, uh, if you weren't, if you were just coding it up without using a low-code tool. Uh, but with, when you're using a low-code tool, these are things that, uh, that people, um, have to evaluate and, and, um, uh, these, you know, we have to have, uh, the low-code tools, whatever application that they create, they should be conforming to architectural patterns that enable it to scale. Um, and that, that makes it easy to, like you said, deploy.

Because now there are public clouds like Amazon, a w s, um, you know, Azure, uh, Google Cloud. You should be able to access and deploy them there because, you know, uh, everybody uses them and they're already, uh, they already know how to, um, these, these vendors already know how to scale, uh, your application as it, as it hits, uh, adoption, and more and more people starting using it. So, will you be able to do that, um, easily, and will you be able to interface with your DevOps team, hand it over to them and say, Hey, um, why don't you guys, uh, take, take care of the deployment for me?

Um, and, you know, how do they, uh, respond to, uh, an output from a low-code tool? Will, will they be able to manage that, uh, in production? So all of these concerns, um, you know, you know, uh, low-code tools have to deal with and answer them in a, in a transparent way.

Here's pand for your experience. What are the kind of applications that, you know, customers or users of your platform easily recognizes, this is a great fit, this is where I should use Wavemaker, as opposed to trying to build it in, um, you know, Jango, Python, some framework or something that would be a lot more complex to do. Where, where, how do you identify those kind of applications?

Say, this is perfect for Wavemaker, let's go do it this way. Yeah. So, uh, Wavemaker is perfect for building, um, web applications, uh, any kind of web applications and mobile applications.

So, uh, whenever there's a user experience, you wanna build something that is, um, that has very modern user experience. Um, you know, Wavemaker is a perfect fit, and if you have design guidelines that, uh, that you want to meet, um, that are there, you can easily translate them into Wavemaker application. So those are, those are good fit.

Um, so, uh, we are in banking, financial industry, um, insurance. So we are into, uh, a lot of verticals. The product itself, uh, is not, you know, targeted towards any specific vertical.

You can use it to build any application, but the sweet spot is when you, when when the requirements are with the user experience and modern ux, uh, that's when webmaker really shines Well, and you're, you're, you're talking about level of abstraction that a citizen developer might need versus a professional. I mean, you're talking about yes, UI design, you're talking about things like react native applications, right? Doing direct X, so, and tying security into that.

So there's a lot of technical requirements that you've gotta, you've gotta, um, support or meet to satisfy what a, a professional developer's gonna need. That's right. Yeah.

So it's, um, a lot of these things about, uh, the tech stack that the, the application that low-code is generating. Um, is it something that, that I, that I would, I would, uh, I like having or is it easy to manage? So Wavemaker generates, um, um, you know, easy to, all of these applications that Wavemaker generates are on open source text stack, like you mentioned, react native for mobile apps, and angular for web apps.

So that, that makes the acceptance of the applications much more easier, and, um, feels a lot more familiar for professional developers as well. So that's, that's the unique advantage that, uh, waymaker has. Fantastic.

And, uh, Wavemaker is, um, cloud-based, SaaS-based, or is it a set of tools to download, or some of both? Uh, no, it is SaaS-based, so all you need is just a browser to access it. But some of our customers have also, uh, we also offered a version of Wavemaker that they can install on their premise, but once they install it, the developers within the, uh, the premise can, will still be using their browser.

There's nothing to download, uh, for them to use, uh, Wavemaker. So just, yeah, SaaS product runs in the browser. Very good.

Well, being SaaS based, I'll bet it's pretty easy to check out Wavemaker and, you know, kick the tires, give it a spin, see what it can do. How would people do that? com and you can sign up for a free trial account and, uh, create, create an application.

Create an application, mobile or mobile, and experience our product. Fantastic. Prashant ready?

Um, with Wavemaker, its been fantastic talking with you. Look forward to having you back. Uh, we talk a lot about low-code, uh, types of applications and development and how that fits into, you know, DevOps and pipelines and things like that, which, uh, something that's targeted like Wavemaker is the professional developer would make a lot of sense in that conversation.

I could see how they would connect with this and mm-hmm. See how they could use that. So thank you for joining us.

Thank you, Mitch. Thank you for having me. You bet.