Systemic Thinking in the Age of AI

Hi, everyone. Welcome back here to Techstrong TV. I've got a first-time guest on our show to introduce you to.

She's the CEO of a company called Vector Global, and her name is Esther Ojero. And she says it so much better than me with that wonderful Spanish accent that I've never been able to get. But let me introduce you to Esther.

Esther, welcome to Techstrong TV. It's great having you here. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Pronounce your name correctly for me because I mangled it. My name is very difficult to speak for an English person, so it's Esther Ojero, but you did it nicely.

Excellent. So Esther, as I mentioned, you're the CEO at Vector Global. Before we talk about Vector Global and everything they do, let's hear a little bit about your background.

Okay. My background, I studied architecture, the technical one, not the technological one. And I studied in the '90s, so I have a bit of experience.

And I studied architecture because it was a very complex profession. It was devoted to see deep in persons and people that how they behave in spaces and how to manage this kind of complex projects. It was a very nice value delivery- Yeah ...

for people, and that makes sense, like my evolution in my career. It's always surrounded with complexity and relation with people and systems that sustain people. Mm-hmm.

So, later on, after being architect during some years and facing complex projects, I saw business was calling me. Value delivery farther away from architecture was calling me because I have a family related to business and so on, and I thought architecture had a very technical complexity, and I wanted to develop my skills. And I found it in 2012, I founded Vector Global.

And first of all, was a consultancy related to business development, and so on, in international contexts. And later on, it developed more through technical or technological aspects and agility. When I discovered agility and when I discovered systemic thinking, I was amazed by that.

And I thought that had a lot of answers to what I was trying to find in technical aspects. So I decided to study a lot related to that and make my team, and we started to work with systemic thinking through transformation in companies. So this is more or less the history of my company.

Sure. But this is actually a pretty common pattern that I see with- Yeah ... CEOs, business executives who started their careers on the technical side of the house.

Yeah. Right? They're very technical.

They have all kinds of code they've done and all kinds of projects, technical projects. But at some point, they jump the curb, right? They jump the lane into a new lane, into that business lane because it represents a bigger challenge, a bigger- Yeah ...

opportunity. They just feel it right in their bones, in their heart, that they want to move into the business. And then once they go that way, it's very hard to go back, right?

Yes, it is. Now you're running business. So you started Vector Global back in 2012.

Yeah. So you've been doing this a little bit. Yeah.

Let's fast-forward, though, from 2012 to now. As we sit here today with Vector Global, what is the company doing? I'm sure what's interesting is, in many ways, the mission hasn't changed probably, right?

You're still helping people with business agility, systemic transformation. The tools have changed, right? But the people you're dealing with and what you're trying to do for them, the problem is still there.

Yes. In fact, related to managing complexity, what the main challenge we face with our clients is transformation when things change. So it's typical talking about this.

I don't want to develop this too much, but complexity is everywhere. So when you work with companies, you see the main pain they have Is facing that change. So we are devoted to that.

And when I discovered the tools related to systemic point of view, I saw I had to go through that and give that tool to other companies. Yeah. So that's why we used to explain how it works, and we give leaders these kind of tools, and I'm devoted to that.

My mission, my vision, my ikigai is bringing systemic thinking to everywhere I can reach. This is my ikigai. I did it some years ago, and since then, it hasn't changed.

I still have this movement, this direction, very clear for me. So I don't mind in which kind of tool, if it's a conversation with a CEO, just having lunch, or with anyone in one company, I always bring that kind of questions, bring that kind of sessions, bring that kind of way of thinking. Because for me, it has been so revealing, that for me, it's a treasure that I had to share with everyone.

It's not depending on the kind of contract, the kind of relation I have with people. Sometimes we do it with pro bono companies or- Mm-hmm ... associations or ONGs or anything.

But we bring it to the world, because this is the main tool I have. And transformation is the word we use to put systemic thinking inside the companies. Transformation, agility, or business agility, or whatever you want to...

This is the technical part. But the layer we bring is systemic vision. So we try to put this for our value.

So I've got to ask you this, don't be upset. But what is AI? How's AI changing this?

Well, this is a very nice question. This is a very nice question because we always talk about emerging future in systemic thinking. Mm-hmm.

I studied in a school, North European school- Yeah ... and we are always talking about emerging future. And the emerging future is when you cannot plan that.

But- Mm-hmm ... we smell what's happening. I always say: What do you smell when you step on?

What are you smelling? This is my favorite question. Mm-hmm.

It's a gift because you can always ask, what's smelling, this situation? It's like a bit of intuition, and I don't want to fall in spirituality or anything like that. I don't want to talk...

I'm very technical. My background is technical. I always- Mm-hmm ...

talk with technical people, so I don't want to fall in this kind of vocabulary. But I'm sure if I ask you what smells AI for you, you will have an answer. So my answer is, this is something you cannot stop, and it's such a big tool for everyone.

I use it every day. I do things I could have never done, me myself, with AI. And I don't know so much about AI, but we are doing, for example, transformation related to AI in companies, because transformation is transformation.

I don't mind if it's AI, and I don't mind if it's any other kind of trans, if it's value transformation. But you can see in the world how it's moving AI. You can smell where it's going to.

I don't know if we like it or if we don't, but it came for something. And AI is very related to systemic thinking because it's embracing all the knowledge of the humanity. So, when we talk about social intelligence, I'm talking about systemic thinking.

Some people talk about God, some to... I don't want to fall in controversial concepts, but some people call it... I used to talk about the aim of the society.

Where's going aim of society? Where's going the aim of... I love to talk, and I just use this term, this aim of a company, for example.

What's the aim of the company saying? And the CEOs and the, I don't know, and the teams and departments and executives can talk through the aim of the company. We have some different kind of ways to make it reveal.

But if I ask you, what's the aim of society telling about AI? What would you say? What is the aim of society?

I- I think, so it's funny, I'm writing a book on this actually. So I- Oh, sorry ... I think society, we have been...

Look, way before AI, way before computers even, I think societies, people, have been looking for easy... We want to make our lives better at the end of the day, and we've been looking for easy ways to do it and new ways to do it. You go back and we've been building grids, network infrastructure that allow us to build our lives on.

Whether it was the phone or electricity, railroads, transportation, all of these things. AI represents, in many ways, the culmination, the pinnacle, the top, because it builds on all of those things, but it's not just another one of those things. It's not something that we're just going to build on top of, because everything we built on top of kept the human.

The human was on top of it. We built these things for humans to... I'm not so sure with AI that that's what's going-- This is almost, and I don't want to get into a religious thing either, but it's almost godlike that you're creating something in your image.

Right? Yeah. And we don't want to necessarily be on top of it, I think.

I think we almost want it as a peer, as a companion, or whatever you want to call it. Maybe we're all looking for love, I don't know. But me, that's what I think.

We're amazed at... So there's the magical stuff, the stuff it does that we could've, like you said, I could've never have done without it. Absolutely, it does that.

But I think there's a deeper thing underneath it that we want this companion. We want this equal, not an equal, but we want this entity to work with us. Not that we should necessarily build on top of it, but it should work with it, like building something in our image.

That's the best way I could explain it. And do you think maybe this is the last invention of humanity peaks? I don't think so.

So I don't necessarily think it's the last invention. I think when quantum comes out and some of the other new technologies. But I think everything else we build will be built through the lens, will look through the lens of this.

Probably. Yeah. Like electricity or any other kind of computers.

Yeah. We always think this is the last, this is the best, this is the most emotionally... But does humanity always reveal something new?

Yeah. We are like that. Well, because there's something inside of us- Yeah ...

right? And that's something I don't know if AI ever reaches, right? That what it is to be human, what it is to be curious.

Oh. Yeah. What it is to just keep reaching.

Yeah. Never be satisfied. I don't know.

We got into all kinds of physical philosophy here. Let's come back to Vector Global, though. I know, but I love this kind of conversation.

Yeah. After that, we go to practical and technical aspects, but this one- So- ... I love this ...

how do people engage with Vector Global now? How do-- Engaging like technical or technically or how? So they say, "You know what?

We're interested in transformation. We're looking at business agility and we want to take advantage of AI and some of these other new things. But we understand we've got to get ourselves in position to do such a thing, right?

" Mm-hmm. "We just-" Okay ... you can't just snap your finger.

Our approach is like a consultancy firm. Mm-hmm. Or maybe we have some agile coaches and people very well trained, related to systemic concepts.

But sometimes we work through technical aspects, and we bring that layer. Or sometimes we work with CEOs or this kind of profiles or roles. And we work with sessions and so on, so we can help them to reveal the system to themselves.

I never force a transformation. We never force a transformation. We used to put the mirror.

So you can see- Yeah ... your patterns, you can see your movement, you can see this kind of conversation we are having. This is very useful in my surroundings- Sure ...

with clients we work with. So, we put themselves in the mirror. So it's much easier for them to get the transformation done.

How we work, we work with all kind of tools, like sessions or KR or workflows and so on. But the main thing is to ask the right question in the right place. Yeah.

One question can change everything. And maybe it's a process, like one year of process, like with agile coaches and so on. But this used to happen to us, that one question or one good tool put in the right moment, in the right place, change everything.

Yes, this is how- Absolutely ... we get our clients and how we work. Sometimes it's a session with 100 people, or sometimes it's different kind of engagement with our clients.

We didn't mention the website for Vector Global. com. com.

Yes. There you can find all our things and stuff we do. Excellent.

Let's start. We're over time. I promised you 15 minutes.

We got carried away on other stuff. Oh. But what a delightful conversation.

Best of luck. Come back, keep us posted, and we can continue this. Thanks a lot for the conversation.

I love so much. Thank you. Thank you.

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