Fueling the Future – Whit Irvin Jr., Q Hydrogen

This is Techstrong tv. Welcome to Techstrong tv. I'm Bonnie Schneider.

As hydrogen fuel gains traction, it's transformative potential in system optimization and energy efficiency becomes increasingly evident, especially within the DevOps landscape. We're delighted to have with us now. Witt Irvin Jr.

He is the current c e o of Q hydrogen, a pioneer in clean hydrogen innovation. Witt will share his insights into the emerging, this emerging energy source, highlighting its practical applications and benefits. Welcome, Whitt.

Great to have you here. Here. Thank you for having me, Bonnie.

Well, that's great. You know, Whit, I, I think you're our first guest, uh, to talk about hydrogen. So it really is, uh, timely because I know a lot of our viewers are interested in alternative, uh, energy sources.

So I was wondering if you could share first a little bit about your background and why, really the proposition behind clean hydrogen, uh, what is it and how is it a game changer in the energy industry? Sure. Um, so I'm Whitt Urban Jr.

I'm based in Park City, Utah, as you mentioned, the C e O of Q hydrogen. Um, we've actually developed a new method of producing hydrogen that's been under, under development now for over 28 years. And we will be introducing that in the next few months in the form of a power plant up in Northern New Hampshire.

So the, uh, timing, uh, of this interview and a lot of the discussion around hydrogen has become, um, far more relevant, um, now than it was even in the recent past history. Um, but generally speaking, hydrogen has been one of those things that people have talked about for decades, and the idea behind it being a clean source of energy, of fuel that you could use for vehicles, run them in fuel cells, potential for combustion and power plants, all of these things. But it was never a reality because the cost to produce hydrogen generally is too high when you talk about, especially when you talk about renewable methods to produce it.

And then the other methods you talk about, gray, hydrogen, black hydrogen, et cetera, those are hydrocarbon based. And so not necessarily better for the environment. So we're, we're moving into a new era with a lot of, uh, the talk that's going on now and various legislative changes that are occurring in our world in the US and Europe.

And, um, happy to expand more on that if, if you would like. Uh, sure. You know, I, I know there's been a lot of government initiatives globally, but, um, specifically here in the US with the Biden administration's clean hydrogen plan, maybe you can start there and then talk a little bit about, uh, what's happening overseas.

Sure. So the Inflation Reduction Act, uh, included a big upper for hydrogen that frankly we weren't expecting as a company. I know that there were a lot of people talking about it on all, all ends.

Our Washington d c based lobbyists were keeping us in the loop, but nobody believed that it would've been passed in the form that it was. So to give you an idea of what this really means for the hydrogen industry, generally the big deal is $3 a kilogram for hydrogen that is produced cleanly or via renewable sources. So, um, there is a measure of carbon intensity associated with the various forms of hydrogen that are produced.

And there's a, um, group out of Argonne National Labs that created something called the GREET model. So this measures carbon intensity of whatever the inputs are to produce your hydrogen, and then what comes out on the other side. So it's a full like life cycle analysis of how you produce it.

And so to get your full $3 a kilogram for the produced hydrogen, which is also a direct pay from the government for up to 10 years, which is a big deal in this industry, you have to be the lowest possible carbon intensity based on that model. So the reason why this is important, and when we talked earlier about hydrogen being so expensive, is this takes a lot of hydrogen production methods that are currently, um, not financially viable into the realm of being something that large companies will, um, anticipate or plan on doing because they can figure out the numbers and make it work. And the hope is that there would be a spur in innovation and other methods to either produce hydrogen use, hydrogen store, et cetera, that will bring the cost down to eventually where that $3 a kilogram would no longer be necessary.

I kind of compare it to the early days of solar and wind when people said, oh, it's too expensive. Uh, it's never gonna be a viable part of our overall ecosystem when we talk about the grid. And now it's a big part of overall utilities portfolios throughout the world.

That's True. Uh, so hydrogen is definitely gaining momentum, but, um, can you talk a little bit about both the advantages and the challenges, the keys that the pros and cons that current hydrogen production, uh, faces? So current hydrogen production, if we're talking about, let's say stereotypical electrolysis, which is the method you would use to produce clean hydrogen, um, is essentially splitting water via heat reaction that you have to use an alternative source, if you're gonna call it grains, it's either a massive amount of wind or solar or hydro involved in producing that power.

So when you think about the amount of solar energy or wind energy that you would need to produce that green hydrogen, it's, it's tremendous. Um, massive amount of land is necessary. A massive amount of, um, overall infrastructure cost is necessary.

So the good part is you've got some clean hydrogen coming out. The not so great is overall cost overall. So the I r A will help bring that down.

When you talk about the most prevalent methods of producing hydrogen today, a majority of it is done with steam reformation of natural gas. So you're using nat gas as the basis to produce hydrogen. And in the, in the end, it's really not that clean 'cause you're using a hydrocarbon to produce something on the other end that is considered clean.

So that's an issue. Um, one of the major, um, issues that a lot of people, well, some people talk about, some people don't. Uh, when you put all the numbers together, transportation and storage of hydrogen is a really, really big deal because it adds a significant amount sometimes doubling or tripling the cost of the hydrogen from point to production to point of use.

So innovations are coming out in this space. Again, I think this, this is something that will become more and more evident as the inflation reduction acts and other such incentives, um, become more of a thing that people are using as part of their long-term planning and testing and innovation. But, um, the overall, um, I think that this is something that needs to happen and I'm looking forward to hydrogen becoming more of a, uh, part of the overall energy ecosystem as, as opposed to just something that right now most of our world's hydrogen is used for, um, production of fertilizers.

Mm-hmm. So we don't realize that ammonia is one of the big ones. So that's where the majority of it goes.

And then, um, one of the other largest uses is for the, uh, production of oil and gas, so refining of oil and gas and beyond that, um, people have just seen it as something that could be an overall augment for the energy landscape, not something that could be used as an overall large basis for, let's say production of electricity or other things. And I think we're moving toward that. That's really interesting.

Do you see it as something that could be used in the tech landscape to, let's say power data centers, things like that? Absolutely. So interestingly enough, um, we are in discussions with several people in that space and, uh, the power plant that we were, we're opening in Northern New Hampshire, we will have a, um, we will actually start off with an offtaker that is a, uh, mobile data center that's an example of a newer technology that involves, um, sub submersion, um, of all of the computers, so you don't have the noise.

So it's got kind of like a heat sync technology attached to it. But, um, what we're doing is so different. We're hoping that this will be part of just the beginning of these, um, larger initiatives that we're looking at with some of the, the mega data centers where we could provide clean hydrogen as a base load power source.

Makes sense. Well, given the nature of hydrogen, what measures are in place to ensure safe and secure implementation of hydrogen fuel cells in tech environments? So fuel cells themselves have actually been used in tech environments for quite a long time.

I mean, hydrogen fuel cell is, is, uh, something that's been used in the backup space for cell towers. People don't realize this. There are a lot of, um, plug power in the predecessor to plug power, um, rely on, they, they put several of these, um, cell phone tower backup, hydrogen fuel cell things in place all over the country.

And so it's been something that's, that's been in the works or in in use in the tech landscape for a while. Um, companies like Bloom Energy have already been using, it's a different form of fuel cell of course, but they've been using those at companies like eBay and Google, et cetera, for quite a while. So on the hydrogen side, yes, it's different, but the, um, underlying technology is very similar.

So when we talk about storage and transportation of the fuel, that's the biggie. But the good thing is that, uh, technology has been in place for decades now related to sensing of leaks, um, the ability to reduce the impact if something were to go wrong. Um, one example of the, in, in Germany, essentially the German parliament building, they don't allow a gasoline, um, fueling station within a certain range of that building, but they have a hydrogen fuel cell station, essentially right across the street.

And it's to prove a point, essentially that hydrogen when properly installed and used is safer than things like gasoline from an explosion perspective. It goes up instead of out and spreading around. So it's very, um, contained.

And then you look at the automobile landscape, companies like Toyota have spent decades doing research and development on fuel cells for cars. And so, um, the way that all these things are set up, essentially you're, you're talking about highly compressed hydrogen put into these tanks that if something were punctured hydrogen is so light, it would disappear faster than the likelihood of an explosion to happen. So, so safety technology is there sensing, sensing technology is there.

These are things that have been around now for several decades. And so I, I feel that as these environments, uh, more commonly use hydrogen technology, we already have a lot of the components and pieces in place to make sure that it's safe. Okay.

Great. Um, what about the costs? What are the cost implications for integrating hydrogen fuel?

So a lot of it depends on how you're using it. So, um, in the automotive sector right now, California is the biggest user of hydrogen for fuel cell cars. So we talked about Toyota, but there's other companies like Honda, um, Mercedes, B M W, Kia Hyundai, they're all coming out with their, their consumer versions of these cars.

And in a lot of cases, the leases include the fuel because the cost of the fuel is still rel relatively high. Um, you, you're talking about anywhere between seven to $14 a kilogram, uh, based on where you're getting it. And so point of use is really the, the big component and then the amount of, of, uh, transportation that, that is necessary to get it to where you're using it is another key component.

So costs are gonna fluctuate for a while. They are high. Now, the cheapest forms are, like I mentioned, black and gray.

Black would be using something like a coal power plant, et cetera, to produce the hydrogen gray as the natural gas version. Again, um, those are the least expensive, but environmentally the highest toll. And then the stuff that's cleaner costs more.

The inflation reduction Act is, is still really in its infancy. People are still trying to figure out how to implement it. Everybody's still waiting on, um, the government to provide guidance, the i r s to provide guidance on how to properly implement it.

Because a lot of big companies are planning big projects to implement even things as large as like five megawatts, um, electrolyzers made by companies in China. But the problem with those is you have to keep 'em running all the time to make them financially viable, even with the inflation reduction act. Mm-hmm.

So it's still a game of, of putting all the puzzle pieces together. Um, my company's in a bit of a different, um, situation, which is why we're, we're opening this facility to show what we're doing. The cost implications are less of an issue for us.

It's, it's more of a, uh, uh, introduction of a new tech that will show that this can be done very inexpensively. And we actually don't rely on something like the I r A to make us viable. Um, but it's gonna take a combination of all of us to get this to a point where it's more of an energy source that's used across the board to make a, a large impact on carbon reduction.

Well, we have time for one more question. So to conclude, what, what is the message or insights you'd like to offer for our viewers that are interested in this transformative potential of hydrogen fuel? Well, we're just at the beginning and, um, initiatives like the I R A are the, um, bit of adrenaline necessary, I think, to create a change.

Because regardless of whether it's incentivizing old technologies to be viable or not, it will spur innovation. And innovation is what we need to make a huge impact. So I feel like there's enough money there, there are a lot of really smart people talking about it.

And the hydrogen future, I believe is really bright. That's great. Uh, well, Witt Irvin, Jr thank you so much for sharing your expertise and shedding light on the exciting developments in the world of hydrogen energy.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Bonnie. Alright, well stay with us on Techstrong tv.

We'll have more great interviews coming up.