Speak Up 2024 Survey – Digital CxO Podcast EP65

Hello and welcome to the digital CXO podcast. I'm excited to be here today because we have our first guest, Meredith Graham of Inno. She is the Chief People Officer.

How are you doing? I'm doing great today, thank you. Wonderful.

And also with us is of course, Mike Vizard. How are you? I'm doing well.

I'm excited to talk about this topic, but, uh, maybe a little scared at the same time. So to begin, Meredith, can you share a little bit about in Sono first, and, uh, then we'll talk about a recent survey that y'all did? Yeah.

Great. So, um, in Sono, so we have about, um, over 3,400 global associates, uh, and we are a managed service provider and we provide services to Fortune 500 companies. Um, and we provide ser those services mainframe to public cloud, um, and digital applications.

So I'm really excited to be here to talk today about, um, AI and how it's impacting women in tech. Awesome. So with that being said, y'all recently released the Speak Up 2024 survey, and this was a survey of 1500 women, um, across, uh, three different countries that are working in the tech sector.

So you mentioned ai, so we can start there. There was a lot of information, but we know that's the big topic of the day. So what are some of the key findings in the AI section?

Yeah, I think, um, which was very interesting is, is that of the women surveyed, a large proportion of the women, um, were really taking the lead in AI and what AI means, um, within the tech sector and for their careers, which I thought was very interesting. Um, and then there was also a lot of women, women mentorship as well. Um, so, so that, um, in and of itself, you know, leads me to believe that, you know, women are truly interested in this next step and this next phase of, of, of AI and how it's really gonna impact their world.

And then the future world. It seems like to me there's a bit of a difference though between the building of the AI models and the using of the AI models. And I bring that up because we've talked in the past with num, numerous folks about the STEM education issues that women encounter, and they kind of disappear from math departments in seventh grade.

And, um, there's a lot of men building the AI models, and I don't think they're deliberately injecting bias, but there's cultural bias that gets injected into the model itself that then manifests itself way out to the use cases. So, you know, what's your sense of, have we thought this completely through, or are we just kind of jumping in and then we're surprised when there are some, uh, suboptimal outcomes, as they say? Uh, no, I think, um, I think we're jumping in, as you said.

I don't think, um, you know, I mean, I think, uh, technology always outpaces kind of, um, you know, legislation and regulations and just kind of the thought around like, what is the true impact to, to the human. Um, and I think that that is why really women do have an interest in it, because I think that they are looking at it, I think that we are looking at it that there is gonna be a huge impact, and there's a potential for a lot of good if you can ensure that these models don't have those biases. But then there's a lot of risk if they do have biases.

So, um, you know, just around, you know, talent development and, and those types of things. And just ensuring equality. If if there's any sort of bias that gets into there, how do you stop it?

And I think that those are the questions, um, that, that people are asking. And I think that's why Ribbon really are interested in, in what it means and, and how they can participate in the development of AI as it is very new. So I remember in the report there was some information about remote work versus in-person work.

And for women it seems like they're struggling a little bit if they're working remotely. Why is that and can you share a little bit, uh, deeper information about that? Uh, I mean, I think, you know, just stepping back, I don't think this has anything to do with, with ai.

I think there's just struggles around, um, remote, remote work. Um, and it's particularly, you know, in in businesses where there are kind of hybrid in person and then remote, um, I think that women in general enjoy remote work immensely. Um, actually, actually I think a lot of people, um, do because it provides a lot of flexibility.

Um, but there are, you know, inherent risks. So if you have people that are working inside an office and, um, are seeing, you know, the executives or the leaders day, day in and day out, there's always just generally that tendency to kinda lean towards that person that is sitting next to you and having that conversation and not necessarily sharing all of the information that you have with the remote workforce. And I think it's just something that, um, you know, we've been working on since Covid and the world shifted around.

How do you ensure that there's a level set across, um, the organization when you do have in-person hybrid and remote? Um, and I think it's a struggle, but I think it's more of a leadership development that, that we've been working on definitely, um, throughout the time. And I think that there's just continued, um, leadership development that needs to occur to make sure that it's level and, and equal.

Now, this part of the survey left me scratching my head a little bit because, you know, I work in an office and have been doing so for the last year and a half, but prior to that, I spent the better part of a decade working remotely. Um, and as I went through your list, you know, I was like, yep, experience that. Yep, experience that, check, check, check.

I mean, it seemed to apply to both male and female. It's, it's just the nature of the beast. Uh, agree.

No, I don't, I don't think that there's, um, female versus male. I do think that there's a tendency for more women if it's hybrid, remote, or in person to accept more of a hybrid remote model just because of, you know, caretaking duties and things like that. I think the flexibility around, um, child, you know, taking care of your children or, you know, even, you know, parental responsibilities, I think that flexibility just leans more towards that than men.

Um, but that's, um, just more around those caretaking. But I agree wholeheartedly that, you know, if you're remote as a male and remote as a female, it's probably gonna imply equally. I would say the only difference is the only difference that I do experience working in the office is then my wife is working from home now.

Um, you know, she just randomly throws stuff on my calendar, expects me to do it, so I'm like, okay, there we go. Well, that's relationships, so we don't wanna go there. Well, that does bring us to, to the next part of the survey, which was about that work life balance.

So, um, what were some key findings there and what are some of the struggles? Um, and what advice do you have as far as balancing, um, you know, the family care and the work? Yeah, I, I mean, it's, it's always difficult.

I mean, again, so women generally have the caretaking duties fall, generally fall, fall on women. Um, that's not always the case. Um, you know, and so, you know, those, the, there are struggles around the, that work-life balance, but the remote hybrid I think really enables, um, you know, individuals and women to have that flexibility, um, and to be able to do the work that they need to do at different hours and not always be, um, you know, an eight to five type of thing.

So, um, I mean, I wish, you know, you know, people with children and it would say that eight to five, you know, is, is doable for most, but it isn't, um, you know, in reality. So, so I think, you know, that flexibility in how, and that hybrid really is very important. And I think, um, you know, some of the mandates that employers are giving around, um, being in the office on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I think that is adversely impacting women because, you know, I think they wanna be able to have the opportunity to come into the office, um, when they can be in the office and what works for them within their lives.

So, so, um, I think those mandates are, are, um, adversely impacting, um, a lot of women and, and hopefully people will look at it as, um, encouraging more women to come into the office, but not the, those mandates. Mm-Hmm. We were just having this debate on the Textron gang, which is another show that we do.

Um, and I think Amanda was involved in this, and we were trying to work out the nuances of, well, you're working remote, but you're kinda have different hours and different times and it's hard to sync up and kind of get everybody on the same page at the same time when we're all talking about the same thing. On the other hand, um, if we force everybody to live in San Francisco and New York, we limit the scope of the jobs that are available, and it's probably bad for the economy and it's bad for everybody in general because we're not, uh, being as inclusive as we might. Um, so how do you kind of strike a balance between those things where we're, we're trying to stay engaged with each other, but at the same time we don't want to, you know, require everybody to work within a, you know, two hour commute to the office?

Yeah, I mean, so, you know, I mentioned at the beginning we're a global workforce. Um, you know, half of our workforce is in India, a portion is in Europe, um, portion in us. Um, I think, you know, that said, most companies are going towards those global, and you know, you find those times where you connect and where it's important and you prioritize, you prioritize those meetings, you prioritize these, um, you know, teams meetings, these zoom meetings to make sure that everybody's on the same page to, to mandate.

People near offices are also excluding, if you look at the global workforce, you know, huge groups of people. So you know that India workforce, they tend to work late so that we in the US can get up early and Europe can be, you know, in their afternoon. So we can all collaborate equally.

So I think it's just setting those expectations around what's important and, and the timeline of, you know, those hours that you have to be available and ensuring that, that you work around that. I think most people, um, would agree that, um, you know, they can make that work within their schedules as long as they know in advance. Mm-Hmm.

What did women have to say as far as the overall work culture? I know there was some information in there about the culture. Yeah, I think, um, you know, overall, um, there was good news around how I think that women are feeling, um, more connected in the, in the workplace.

And, um, things are really improving. Um, you know, I think, you know, that said, um, you know, some of the feedback was that there's still some areas of improvement that need to, to occur. I think there was some still some feeling around, uh, microaggressions and, and some sort of, and some, um, limited discrimination.

And, and I think, you know, again, it's around developing our leadership. It's developing the, the, the culture in the organizations to, to, you know, um, break down those barriers. And, but, um, you know, overall, um, based on where we were, um, you know, a few years back when, when we did the first survey to where we are today, I think that most, um, women kind of expressed that, that they saw some po a lot of positive improvements, which was great.

Hmm. Is it your sense that, you know, that's a marginal improvement or is it your sense that you still got a long way to go? Or where are we on this journey before, before the guys run around and declare victory?

Yeah. No, no, no. I would never declare victory.

So, you know, and it was only 1500 women, so it was a sampling. But, uh, I mean, I think it's great though that we're starting to see improvement overall. Um, so, you know, where we were, you know, even 10 years ago, even before we started doing the survey, I think women would, would, um, say that we've made significant improvement, but I still think that there's a long way to go to, to true equality within the organization.

Um, you know, and a lot of that too comes from, you know, if you look at the tech sector, there's not a lot of women still in leadership roles. And, you know, true equality comes from having, you know, um, equal parity, um, throughout an organization. And so there is a lot of work that still needs to be done.

Um, but, but that said, you know, there's been improvement. And so I'm really happy with what I've seen and heard. Wonderful.

And I do believe the survey did show that there are more women entering into the, the tech sector. Is that correct? Yes.

Yeah, so there's definitely, um, more women entering the tech sector. So we definitely, um, and even in Inno, um, we've seen a lot of, um, you know, women joining where we're getting into an equal parity situation at those, those, those junior levels. Um, but again, still a lot of work to, to be had, um, particularly in the senior levels.

Do these issues also apply to other forms of inclusion that we're trying to achieve, whether it's LBGQ or, um, it's just simply people of different economic backgrounds. I mean, um, are we making progress across the board or is it just that we've been focused on this one area, but we still got a long way to go in other areas? Uh, no, I, I think we've made progress in a lot of areas, um, just because there's such a strong awareness around, um, bringing inclusion into the workplace, bringing equality, you know, um, every study that you read, um, you know, the more diverse you are in an organization, the stronger you are.

Um, you know, the, the, the greater revenues, the stronger organizations, um, because you just need those different voices. Um, you know, bringing in people that are all from the, you know, same, uh, background and, you know, same age, you know, kind of, you know, grew up the same. I, you know, that doesn't lead to a lot of diversity of thought, and I think we need that diversity of thought.

Um, so, so, so there's been progress. It's just there needs to be a lot more and, you know, our survey focused on women. Um, but, but I agree with you, you know, there needs to be a lot more just around the ethnic side, um, you know, and then also, you know, lgbtq plus.

So, And I think the, the last, uh, segment of the survey shared a little bit about what women value as far as benefits, uh, from their work. And so what were the most valued benefits from the workplace? Yeah, I think there was, um, you know, there was a lot around, um, you know, um, skills enhancement and development.

Um, so, so making sure that there's those career paths, um, were very important. I think the flexibility was noted. Um, and I think there was a lot of, um, you know, just information just around also being part of decision-making, um, and being able to, to, to, you know, decide where the organization is going.

And, you know, you know, going back to, um, the, the beginning of the topic around AI and women in tech, you know, I think a lot of women are interested in that because, um, they wanna be part of that decision making process. Like, what is in Zno going to be doing? What is my company going to be doing with ai?

How can I assist? How can I enable, how can I be part of that? Um, and so, you know, enabling women to, to, you know, lead the organization and help, you know, move the organization, um, and directionally is very important.

Um, is, is what we read in that survey. What's your sense of the political climate these days? 'cause of course, it is an election year, and we have a lot of different things happening in different states.

We are in Florida, and of course, you know, as some of this is a regular conversation here, um, but it's everywhere, right? The Republic of Ireland just had a referendum that changed some of the wording in their constitution about what defines a homemaker, and apparently not enough people showed up, so it went down in flames and, uh, much to the surprise of political leadership. But it seems like it's a global conversation, and I wonder, does it matter what the government thinks, or should each company just do what they think is right?

Uh, from what perspective? I guess let's, with a little bit of clarity, that's a, that's an open, open question. It's very different paths.

Where, where are you going? It's just a sense of, um, you know, should companies be worried or be paying attention to these various legislative initiatives that are floating around? Or should they just kind of focus on doing the right thing by what's good for their organization?

And, um, maybe there's too much noise in the system. Uh, no, I mean, I think, um, you know, we, we are heavily in focused on legislation that impacts, um, our associates and how it impacts our associates because that impacts how they do their work and what they're focused on. And so, um, you know, monitoring what's going on, um, within, you know, where we do business is very important, um, so that we can address concerns that come up from it.

There's, there's a lot of divisiveness, um, you know, in, in the world today. Um, and that does impact people. And so, um, you know, we need to do the right thing, but we also need to support, um, all of the people that work for us in, in these, you know, kind of volatile times.

And so, um, you know, if necessary, you know, we, um, as in sono, I'm sure would, would get involved in initiative if we thought it was gonna have a huge impact on our associates, um, and, and the way we do business. Um, you know, at this point we haven't got to that point. Um, but I think it's something that, you know, you know, organizations and leaders just need to be concerned about because it does have a huge impact on, on how people, um, live their day-to-day lives.

Wonderful. So I think we have covered most all the sections of the survey. So if there was one key takeaway that you could leave our business leaders with today, what would that be?

I, I think you just really need to focus on, um, not only women in the organization, um, but just the, the, the minorities, um, in stem, you know, in technology and ensure that you're bringing them along. I, you know, I said it before, diversity of thought, um, is, is very important. And that diversity of thought comes from people with diverse backgrounds.

Um, and, you know, and gender and ethnicity, um, you know, is very important and you should focus on it, um, you know, and, and continue to develop because as I said, you know, we've made great strides. Um, I, I, when I started long ago, I won't tell you how long ago, uh, you know, it was a very different world. You know, I'm, I can say I'm very proud of where we are today, but, but we still need to do more.

So, so continue, keep the focus, continue to support, listen, um, and, you know, just do the right thing and, and help enable, um, you know, those, those diverse, um, associate pools to, you know, come on board into your organization and, and really make a difference. All right, folks. Well, we hope you're listening to this podcast 'cause that's part of listening, right?

So there you go. Absolutely. Well, thank you again for coming on our show, and thank you to our audience for tuning in, and we'll be here next week.

Great. Thank you. I guess.