Margaret Dawson & Alan Shimel Recap AWS re:Invent 2025: Generative AI, Security, and Innovation | AWS re:Invent 2025

Hey everyone. Welcome back. If you don't know this lady here with my right, after all these days, I haven't been paying attention.

That's right. Margaret Dawson, CMO at Susa, my co-host here, kind of no Best friend. Yep.

EFF for our, uh, for now, AWS reinvent coverage. Again, if you couldn't tell by not seeing the Susa logo all through our thing, SUSE was a co-host here, uh, co-sponsor of our, uh, coverage at Reinvent. And Margaret, a reinvent.

It has been, It has been amazing. You know, what I've really enjoyed is all the startups that you've talked to. Yes.

Which I love. I love that SUSE can be part of showing new innovation, new companies, um, companies that maybe, you know, don't get this exposure as easily. I, I love that being part of this, because that's really in the spirit of what we do in open source communities in our ecosystem.

And I, I will tell you, so I'm a startup person myself before I went on this side of the camera. Mm. You know, I, I had done several venture backed startups.

Mm-hmm. Four or five. And, and that's where my heart and passion is still.

So I, I do, yep. I, I, I relate to those people. Is This the light side or is that, is this the dark side?

I mean, most people would call the media probably the dark side, would you? Yeah. But we all, we love you, so it's Okay.

So I do the best I can. You do, you do a great job. That's all.

So, what are your big takeaways, like when you think about this week? Well, look, you know, it's funny. Before you get here in the morning, very early, seven 30 in the morning, we've been taping our taping.

That's such an old word. No. One tapes.

We record. Yeah. Our text on gang episodes every morning.

And I'm usually joined by Mike Ard. Oh, yeah. I love Mike Mitch Ashley, uh, one of my co-founders from another company who's now a future analyst and various other personalities who I've picked up along the way.

And, um, you know, but we talk about what are the big stories, what are the big announcements? And we've been hitting on it. So clearly Agen AI is the star of this show.

Yeah. The question is why, Because there is so much hope that it is going to improve how we work, how we deliver innovation, how we collaborate, and how we move faster, I think. Um, but I don't think you can separate the genic AI from the work around the LLMs and the foundational, the larger foundational models around what's happening with generative ai.

'cause it's all coming together. And we talked about that, right. Like they're, it's interesting 'cause I always struggle when someone says AI and they don't really explain, you know, what are they saying?

Exactly. Mm-hmm. So, I, I do think that AG agentic is taking the star role, but I think there's a lot happening around the, the models and, and other parts of AI that are really MCP servers.

We've talked about a lot of things. MCP, not MPC. That's correct.

But, you know, ag agentic AI is certainly the star today. I think what, what we're seeing though is like, uh, it's almost like a, our AI evolution is going faster than our speed. The speed of light.

And these things are all running into each other. You know, I, it was interesting. I was talking to someone about a month ago and they said, oh, the age degenerative over, we're into agent ai.

And I'm like, hold on a second here. I just got my head around this. Right.

The, the next thing is coming out before the last thing is fully baked. Well, and I think this is, uh, in some ways it's a issue. I think there's huge positive momentum and opportunity.

Uh, but it was interesting. I was at a woman's kind of tech luncheon this afternoon. You weren't there, but there was some really smart people there.

And one of the things that came up again and again was governance. That it's taking us time. And we're not there yet at a governmental level, at an organizational level, at an industry level of really being clear on what are the standards, what are the guardrails, what is the governance that we're putting around these, um, AI technologies, and how do we do that consistently?

I think there is, you know, the threat of, you know, these gets, gets in the hands of bad actors. Um, you know, cybersecurity is already crushing us from an enterprise investment and control. You see data breaches, you see people getting, you know, um, hijacked.

So while I love focusing, 'cause I'm an optimist on all the positive innovation this can bring, I think we can't do it without somewhat stopping for a minute. And you've talked to a ton of security people today. What is that dark side?

I think one of the guys talked about that, right? Yes. Like, how do we get that control?

So, um, I think that we need to continue that conversation and make sure we're not just, I mean, it's just like with the, the cloud bubble and stuff. We got so excited about cloud and then all of a sudden it was like, oh, We got cloud security. Yeah.

Right. Right. And we got cloud was, But those of us in the security space, we were, we were screaming about cloud security from day one.

Just no one listened to us. But Cloud security was closer to network security. Yes.

I, you know, it was, I found when I was working with customers, then there were foundational and fundamental, uh, yes. Ways of securing that, that felt normal and common. You could go to the same stack, same kind of technologies.

I agree. It changed the paradigm, but it wasn't as revolutionary as this. At least it doesn't seem like It Well, it, It, it wasn't so different.

You know, I went to law school and one of the things that I, I had a great con law teacher. He, he was later in his life. He had been at Stanford before where he had two students who did pretty well.

One guy was named Bill Quist. One was named Sandra O'Connor. They did Okay.

After he did them, he came to our school And he had some very famous students. One Allison. Yeah, exactly.

Well, I'll tell you the truth. At that point, he was living in the school. Sometimes if he got in early, he'd be walking around in his boxer shorts with the gold story.

Oh, okay. See, why do we have to go there? But, okay.

There's Good stories somewhere. But he was a really smart man. Okay.

He was a really great con law professor. But one of the things he taught me that I never forgot, is generally when we talk about technologies, it takes governance. Yep.

Three to five years. And Okay. This was pre that time.

No, that's right. I Think that's right. Still though, for three to five years to catch up and we, we've been playing ca we're still playing catch up with a The cloud.

The cloud. Yeah. We are, we are.

I, I don't disagree with that. In fact, that's weird that you gave that timeframe. 'cause that's exactly what we were talking about earlier today, is that, you know, we tend to be five years ahead of governance.

And if you look at governments, I, I think it's much longer. It takes them, I think, 10 to 20 years to catch up because they've gotta go through all their early other Political, and it's a scary, it's a scary thought, but that, that is the facts. And eventually I think it does catch up.

But in this jumbled timeframe that we're living in right now, where it's things are accelerating so fastly, it, it just, it magnifies that gap and makes it, it sort of critical. So here's what I'm seeing in enterprises, and I think that AWS is a good kind of example of this, is that every organization I talk to, and I'll, I'll say, you know, including our own, is wanting employees to all experiment, use ai, You know, the encouragement, Put measurements around it, show us your productivity, show us these different things. Right?

But they are doing it with a framework that says, you know what, here is our approved, um, agentic ai, here's our approved, uh, generative AI tool. Right? So that at in the beginning, just like with early cloud, we were just playing with everything.

And then it came in and said, I get it. You might love this one more than This one. Gotta bring some one more Into chaos.

Here's, here's kind of the ones that we're gonna stamp. We're gonna include that in our SSO. Right.

You, you start building that, that authentication. Right. So it's safer.

You can, you know, like if you look at Gemini, you can build a gem that is like trained in your company. Other, you know, chat g PT has a si similar thing. Mm-hmm.

I mean, everybody's kind of building that. So organizations, and I think especially tech organizations have very quickly, have very quickly started building their governance in what they can control. Yes.

So I think that's happening very fast. I think the bigger issue is more the industry or broader, um, society works society and then, you know, going back to governments, um, don't Disagree. And I think that's gonna take a lot longer.

And the question is, when does it catch up? I don't know if it ever, Well, some of it's on the AI providers, let's be honest. Right?

So if we have to put those controls on as an organization, but the consumers, because this is not just B2B. Right. Huge Consumer.

But you can't, you can't ask the, the, the, the, the fox to guard the hen house. We have not even been able to do that with social media. No.

How long has systems and government's been asking social media companies to put the controls in there? So if we can't even do it with something as simple as that, I mean, what, it's powerful. But social media platforms are not that complicated technically.

You know, this is then how can we, how can we expect to do that? So, but I don't know. That's where that's But Let, let me bring a factoid up.

You like a factoid. Factoid. Is it a nexus of factoids?

There's only one here. So there's quite, there's only one fact nex, but we'll come back to the nexus. Okay.

Um, another thing we spoke about in our text on gang discussion, I think it was yesterday, is last week there was a letter released mm-hmm. A thousand AWS employees, which is a thousand. Sounds like a lot.

But in the big picture it's not. But it's still a thousand AWS employees signed a letter calling on AWS to take moral responsibility for, for ai. For ai.

And, um, if you look at the, uh, C-E-O-A-W CEO's, uh, keynote towards the end, he did mention something about mm-hmm. Moral ai mm-hmm. Right.

Using AI responsibly. Mm-hmm. I think it was a, not a bone that he threw, but I think he got the message.

So I think there's AI responsibly, there's AI for good, there's, you know, like Right. But there's a lot of these, One of the things that I've been thinking about a lot, and I would love your thoughts on, is that we, when we had kind of this digital transformation, right? We then saw this digital divide, which has only gotten bigger, by the way, right?

Yes. We still don't have internet all over the world. No.

Now we're introducing this amazing new thing called ai, the divide, not only the digital advisory. Now we, now we have an AI divide. Yeah.

What is happening economically and everything. Like, I, I can't stop thinking about this. I know we're getting far Off topic.

There's gonna be ai Yeah. We're, we're way off. But we'll come back in second, a second We'll back.

But I wanted, I want to run with this, if you don't mind. We are creating a, a world of have and have nots. And with ai, it's gonna to be a much bigger gap, a much bigger chasm.

But we're also, make no mistake, we are in a global competition for the technology that's gonna rule the world. Look at chips alone. Right.

I mean, the, the underpinning of all of this is still micro circuits. Right. That's another, you know, I had Daniel Newman here last night, and we had a long talk about the chip market and mm-hmm.

Here's, here's the fact. TSMC, Great company Has a buyer for every single wafer they can produce. They can't produce more wafers than they can right now.

Right. And there's a buyer, two buyers waiting for every wafer they Produce. Well, they're building a new foundry where in Arizona somewhere, billions and Millions of dollars.

When it'll be, when will it be Intel is, Intel almost has to succeed because the, the need for wafers, the need for silicon is so great and it's gonna remain great. And not everyone can build their own chips like Amazon. I mean, I give no Amazon huge kudos for that, but Amazon's not really, but Amazon's chips are not designed by Amazon.

They're using the, some of the, the footprints mistrals and, and, you know, some of the, the usual suspects, if you will, for, for this, these designs. You know, but that's the thing. You've got $5 trillion Nvidia, who's still gonna stay a generation or two ahead of a MD of, of Broadcom, of Amazon, of Google, who are all coming out with the train, you know?

Right. As we move from more training to inference, uh, right. Workloads, hardware is sexy for, for most of our career, hardware wasn't sexy anymore.

Really? I've always thought. Really?

You Were. Yeah. I I was a data, I'm a data center, but I started in networking and storage.

So did I, so You put me in a data center with Blinky lights, I, I'm like in my happy place. Do you remember the Cobalt Network servers? Yes.

Yes. So the, I'm gonna deny that. No, I don't know what you're talking about.

I was No, no. They were one use servers really dense on rack, and they had all these blinking lights, so Many fun blinky lights. And I remember Pat Conte was their head of sales as she chief sales.

And I, I said, pat, what do these red lights mean? He said, they don't mean nothing, but aren't they cool as heck? And I said, yeah, they are.

I'll take 'em. It just, you know, And I mean, great comfort. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, But let's talk. Okay. It it is.

And we still need hardware. By the way, here's, here's something, this is true. This is, I'm just gonna say, we talked earlier about cloud, you know, not showing up as much, but we haven't talked about the data center build out that is happening because of ai, because of cloud still, you Mean the $3 trillion built out?

I'm Just saying, I, many years ago I did this presentation called the data center behind your cloud. And at that time, it sounds funny, but people I think literally thought it was Narnia, you know, fairy dust or something that was driving the cloud. But the build out and the expense of that and the impact potentially, can I say on the climate Yes.

You know, is immense. And I don't know how we keep up with that. So it's not only the chip production, right?

No. Well, there's the whole Massive, massive data center, which is infrastructure, which is servers, which is racks, which is all those Things. But it's also energy.

Exactly. It's energy To, to run these things. Did you see water to cool it?

Who's doing that? The Amazon now has that water cooling within, They have to like The motherboard itself. Yeah, they have to.

Oh my God, that was so cool because they, that was really cool. You know, you're moving from a, I think it's a 10 meg, 10 mega watt, 10 megawatt, 10 megawatt rack to a hundred Right. Megawatt rack or more Yeah, it's 10 x.

Yeah. 10 x the energy or more. So you, the energy, the water e this tax is everything.

It's $3 trillion. And it's not enough to, to do all this, quite frankly, forget for a moment, let's, I don't Want, but no one's talking about that really here. Which I find interesting.

I Don't Absolutely topic. There's a whole issue around data sovereignty that brings up with the Amazon build. That's it does, you know's something that's near and dear to where does your data Sit.

Yep. But I, I gotta bring a little order to the chaos. Yeah.

Bring Us home. Let, let's, let's focus, I wanna focus on Susa and AWS announcements that this show, we did, I don't know, four panels mm-hmm. Three or four panels, or at least four or five interviews and, and we hit on some things that I'd want to do a quick recap, if you don't mind.

Okay. Yep. Let's Do it.

Number one, to me, I think the biggest story is the strategic nature of the relationship between SUSE and Amazon. Agreed. Right.

And, and strategy is a word that gets thrown around a lot or strategic, but this really is a strategic relationship. It really is. And I think this is a little bit showing a new era in that everyone knows AWS and Amazon are a build it our own, you know, not buy it.

And I think you're starting to see them realizing when it makes sense to have a strategic partnership rather than duplicate effort or do it all themselves and really focus on their amazing core competencies. I mean, we heard it from the influx data guy as well. Yes.

So, um, I, I think that there's something there for the ecosystem around AWS that's pretty exciting that hasn't been there before. So that I celebrate the SSA part of it for sure. That was a big part of their announcements too.

They have an ecosystem of partners, 140,000 strong, which is mind boggling. Right. Next Suse Sal, Supplemental packages for Amazon Linux.

Very cool. And again, that's bringing open source innovation. We make sure it's secure, reliable, you know, ready to go.

And now you can do that as available on, lemme Give you the shimmy take on it. The shimmy. The shimmy.

That's shim Not should be confused with a shim. No different. You, I'm saying I never do Shimmy.

You should be like a universal connector. I, some, some say I am. Yeah.

But let me give you the shimmy take on this. To me, it's almost like being able to do a heart transplant with software. Right.

I am taking packages that were really, let's face it, they were designed for, for SUSE Enterprise Linux. Okay. And making them available for Amazon Linux.

There's some magic that goes On. They were designed in the open source communities to help developers Yes. Use Tools to make cool applications.

We then did what we do with all open source technology, which was make that enterprise ready and now we're making it available, our enterprise ready components and tools available for Amazon Linux and the overall Amazon Ecosystem. So I'll tell you though, I've never seen this particular I agree type of thing before. Right.

Where I, and, and it's only because of the power of, as I said in the, in that panel we did, it's only the power of open source mm-hmm. That allows that to actually work. And I think you're seeing a lot of companies that maybe borrowed open source before we're open at the core or whatever that are realizing the future is open.

Everyone wants to work in open source Code portability. Right. And you still need to be able to have it secure and enterprise ready.

You can't just, you know, take it straight from the project and expect it to be, you know, managed in an enter enterprise way. Absolutely. And stable.

So, and, and we, you know, we talked about that in a, in a panel with Spencer and, and Christine. Mm-hmm. If you haven't seen that one, go check it out.

It, it's, it's, it's really cool stuff. That was Good. Okay.

So, So strategic SPAL, then we have, um, A w Susa rancher on AWS Very cool. So our second SaaS solution that is available through Amazon. So literally all, you know, native cloud based, uh, capabilities where you can just, you know, spin up a rancher instance and, and go.

And it allows you to manage any, you know, multiple clusters of EKS. So remember, you know, each cluster of VKS can be managed. This is multi cluster management and any other Kubernetes.

Yes. So very, very powerful. And, and I don't wanna trivialize what it takes to manage multiple clusters.

Takes a lot of Kubernetes. Mm-hmm. Kubernetes, it's hard.

Kubernetes is hard. It is hard. And even I would say it's hard to manage.

'cause think, I mean, you've been doing this a few years. You go back, everyone always wants control of complexity, right? Or give me a single pane of glass.

Give me that management. I want a simple answer. So We're doing that not only now, you know, with Kubernetes, with Amazon, which we've been doing for a while with Kubernetes, but also with Linux.

So the other powerful thing is, you know, we can help you manage Amazon Linux, we can help you manage other linuxes that you have through the marketplace. 'cause of course Amazon gives you choice too of your Linux. Hopefully you choose SUSE Linux.

And we can do that across hybrid right On-prem to multi-cloud. So the, the multi Linux manager, the multi that's Kubernetes manager, cluster manager. Honestly that is magical.

And I think that as you look at what is best for that workload or that environment, if you know this is here to help you, you know, vastly simplify that very heterogeneous complex environments. I mean, why would you not do that? So one thing I wasn't clear on though, maybe you could clear up for me.

The multi Kubernetes cluster is clearly rancher. That's where Rancher shines. Correct.

The multi Linux manager, is that rancher too? Or is that, That's based on, uh, suse Linux. S-E-S-L-E-S.

But it can also help with a lot of the complexity around Kubernetes. 'cause remember containers are Linux. Yes, they are.

So there's always a Linux operating system under containers. So we do have a lot of customer deployments that are leveraging our multi Linux manager to help with very complex Kubernetes deployments or container Deployments. So they almost stack on each other.

Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.

Yeah. So I think we hit that one. Good.

Okay. Um, what else do we have? What Did we miss?

So we've got Sal, we've got, uh, SUSE Rancher on AWS, we've got the strategic, strategic partnership. We've got, yeah. Uh, what am I missing?

I like, we're looking out to the team here. I think, I think those are, are the major things. I Mean, the only other thing would just be, you know, the fact that we have had so many powerful conversations and kudos to the AWS team, because, you know, I've been around the expo.

I dunno if you've had any time to go out to the expo. No, I'm stuck here. It is unbelievable.

The energy, the number of people, the conversations that I talked to, a lot of people I knew at a lot of different, um, booths and, and all part of that ecosystem we talked about. Everyone is saying the same thing. High quality conversations, like more people and energy around it than ever before.

Yes. So that's important. You know, we all invest a lot of money, um, to come here and, and, you know, we're all looking at, you know, what do we gain together?

And so I think it's been a really, really great show so far. Absolutely. There's another thing I I, I think that's really important, and we've mentioned it in our discussions.

Uh, I'll do a graduate. I've got one word for you. Scale.

You've, you've loved this word scale. Yeah. I like Nexus too, but I'm gonna stick with scale right now.

Okay. As I said in one of the panels that we were discussing this scale and then this scale, what scale mm-hmm. To you may not be sort of scale to me, this is hyperscale.

Yep. And, and it's no joke. Right.

And when you're doing things at this level, 8,000 packages for your Linux and, and, you know. Yeah. Well, what I'll, I'll, I'll give two examples of scale that, you know, in my past I hadn't really thought about.

Like, when you're talking about tens of thousands of Kubernetes clusters, some of those, or many of those at the edge, you know, think about all the different use cases is just trying to manage that. And, and, and, and, you know, just keep that, keep that going. In my past life when I was in observability, these huge AI platforms, the amount of telemetry data they are creating is off the charts.

Right. Again, Scale the Scale. And it all goes back to the same thing.

How do I manage this and how do I get control of this? Wrap my hands? And so I, we're gonna go back to that.

It's innovation, it's choice, it's massive scale. And then it goes back to fundamental it, you know, uh, challenges, which is I still have to be able to manage this, keep it secure, report on it, and by the way, control my budget. 'cause we ain't getting more money.

Well, and that, right? So that's the other part of the, and that was always the biggest problem of observability. Just because I can, doesn't mean I should.

Yeah. Because I can't afford it. Yeah.

Um, so, so scale is huge. I I, no, no doubt about that one. Um, you mentioned security.

I, I wanna give my take on, on security, if you don't mind. Security for the next three to five years is gonna come in two flavors. How do I secure against ai and how do I secure with ai?

So AI is both shield and foe, right? I, I'm going to need AI to secure these AI enabled mm-hmm. Stacks that we're building this next generation of applications and platforms and infrastructure.

However, the, the malware, the bad guys, the, the, the threat is AI enabled as well. I'm gonna take a little different twist on this. 'cause Go ahead.

When I think about that, what immediately came to mind is how do I protect my data, especially my customer data, right? Mm-hmm. Or any personal data.

But how do I use that data to give me insight so I improve my customer experience? And those should not be at conflict with each other, but because of ai, I think we are seeing even more of a conflict. But we have to be able to do both those things because protecting that data, especially when the LLMs are just grabbing stuff from everywhere, becomes even more important, right?

Yes. They still, you don't want them to grab your customer data. You don't want 'em to grab your source code, whatever it is.

But there's so much powerful insights. Yeah. And the power of AI is they bring data together from all a structured, unstructured, you know, metadata, like, you know, whatever, wherever it is, all the different sources.

So it's almost like we're fighting against these two things. And, and I, I don't know what the answer is, but I kind of, that's the way I think about it from my perspective. I, fair enough.

I I do think at the end of the day, security is going to continue to be not forgotten. It has a seat at the table, but a challenge. Let, let, I'll say that another thing I wanted to just, and I'm interested in your take on it.

Clearly the focus here is on the developer. Mm-hmm. Which for a while we, we were talking about ops and SREs and platform engineers and data scientists and, you know, all of these other players within this IT ecosystem we, we live in.

But if you look at a lot of the keynotes, a lot of the announcements, it's about developer tools. I think developers have been king or queen They have For a very long time. Um, and I, and I think a lot of developers or engineers feel the most pressure from AI because I, I think a lot of people think It's changing their job.

It's changing their job. Is it taking away their job? You know, we could argue that, but we won't right now.

Um, so I think it's fair and the right thing to do to say, we are empowering you to be even better at your job with these tools. How do we, you know, help you use this faster? You know, and, and, and more affordably, um, I don't know if we've gotten to the point where we're really declaring, you know, what does your future look like?

I still think we're a little fuzzy about that, to be honest. 'cause maybe we don't know. But I think it's great that we're, that we're putting that energy around that, because we still need really smart developers.

And I, my theory is that AI almost becomes like your developer colleague or your junior developer. We, your tester, you know, you your, your code reviewer. But you're still the one that's thinking about like, what is it I'm trying to build?

What's the Experie experience you're trying to build? So let me, let me cut to the chase and ask the question. That's gonna, I think be okay.

So do you, in, in your vision that you just enunciated, is AI the nexus? No. I'm only kidding.

I'm not gonna go exercise yet. But is AI a digital worker, a coworker of the developer? Or is it a tool of the developer?

It's both. Uh, I, I do think it becomes a buddy. Uh, 'cause I, if I think about how even I'm using a lot of generative AI today, it's becoming that person that, like if you, if you were sitting next to someone who is much smarter and faster than you, you know, and said, Hey, could you crank me on an outline for this?

Mm-hmm. Like, here's my idea. I'm not quite sure how to structure it.

And boom, you get that outline. I'm still writing the document mostly Right. But it, it saves me hours.

'cause I just need the structure. Right. And I think that developers will get the same thing.

It's like, you know, hey, you know, what do you think about this idea? Could you do a first run of this, of the code on this? You know, uh, are you sure that's the right way?

Like what does this mean? Or whatever. So you literally start having a conversation as you're coding.

Mm-hmm. Um, which is very similar to as if you and I, and it's very rare to be like coding at the same time as someone, 'cause most s be like, get outta my code. Right.

You know, dude. So in that way it's actually changing the paradigm because I have seen and I do it myself, where you're literally doing it collaboratively. Yeah.

No, I, um, I do articles the same way. Yeah. So it's a tool and it's a colleague or a buddy.

Yeah. Um, I think the question is does the human always stay kind of the senior developer or does it start to change that? Yeah.

And I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't. So I, You know, I, again, I said it at one of the, we had the FU analyst up here for a, a, a session as well.

You know, I'll go from the Billy Joel, Billy Joel song. We didn't start the fire. AI doesn't start the fire.

Right. It doesn't have that spark that humans still have. Correct.

Now I, who knows what it'll be, but, uh, I, so I think the human always is the initiator, the spark of this, or Hopefully the future visionary, right? Like, how could we take this right further? Because I do find when you, when you ask AI that they, you know, AI does a great job at the information that is available.

Mm-hmm. And hopefully the human is going beyond what is available to think about what is possible. It's the creativity, right.

It's the spark. And so, I mean, could we train models to do that? Maybe.

But I, to me, that's always the human potential. You know? So you go back to like a Thomas Edison, right?

The whole world was looking to somehow make a light bulb to make light, we didn't call it a light bulb, but to have a light, it, it takes a, i I don't know if AI has the spark to say, you know what, we, we should throw electricity in through and, and this thing will glow and No, but once you invent it, I think it's once you Said, Hey, this, this is the problem. Right, right, right. I'm looking for a solution for the problem.

And, and this is what I'm thinking and it, and it runs with it. But here's another thing I'm gonna say, but bring it back to developers. I think right now we're focusing on AI's role in developers as that becomes more normalized.

Mm-hmm. We're gonna look at AI's role in ops. We're gonna look at AI's role.

Oh, It's already happening. Although we had the word AI ops for a long time, which I, yeah, It was a different, But that was my struggle with that because I was like stuck Really? I never Bought into it Either.

I really wanted us not to use that term. 'cause I felt like it was, To me that was ML we're head of our It Was totally ml. Yeah.

Which is, which is, I mean we've had AI and we've had ML for a long time. And I think it's just this generation is much, much different. Um, but I absolutely, it will absolutely get into opposite.

It will touch every part of what we Do. This is right. It's gonna work its way through.

It will. Okay. So wrap us up.

So what's your, what's your takeaway? My takeaway is it's a great time to be alive. Because think about it.

We are living at a, we didn't even talk about robotics and physical AI and quantum and all these other things that are just on the cus so Much. I'm excited by this. Right.

I think This is why we can still keep getting jobs. 'cause we are so excited. There Is that though I, you know, I've had the look, I'm, I'm entrepreneurial.

I always make my own jobs and I could keep talking about this and writing about this and doing this stuff because I just think this is the most exciting time to be alive in humanity perhaps ever. Right. There is, we're on the cusp of civilization changing innovation.

I can't wait to see what's next, but I'll tell you what is next. Suan. Yes.

April 21st to 23rd. Right? It's alright.

2026. Yeah. com and uh, register today and we'll keep this conversation going all about digital sovereignty, AI innovation, virtualization, you know, optimizing to, you know, modernizing cloud native.

It's all happening there. So Yeah. In Prague, by the way, which it Is a great city.

One of my favorite cities in the entire world. So hope to see everyone there. Is this your last trip of the year or No?

No, no. Hell no. Pretty close though.

Thank you. I am, I'm done. Okay.

Good job. I'm done after this. We'll take a break.

Thank you. Thank you Margaret Dawson. Such a pleasure.

Is a, just a treasure to have on here. Anytime you want to come on, you've got an invite. Absolutely.

All Right. We're wrapping up here from AWS re event, 2025. Thank you so much for joining.

tv, on text, drug tv, YouTube channel or the text drug tv OTT app on your TVs, phones, tablets, whatever you want to do. Um, it's all there. You could check it out.

We'll also be sharing a lot of these videos with our friends at souse and you could probably catch it on the souse social media and, and video channels as well. Margaret, thank you. Thank all.

Thank you. Alex. The folks at SUSE too, I Tell you.

Well, thanks to AWS for, for this amazing set. Yeah. Thank you to them.

And look, they came here in spades. They did. It was great to, to Wonderful partnership work with you.

It's strategic. All right. Hey, that's a wrap.

We're out. Thank you.